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Greece - Bosnia-Herzegovina (13 November 2016, Georgios Karaiskakis Stadium, Piraeus)


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6 minutes ago, ELLAS75 said:

Pjanic missed a great opportunity top of the box could have finished the game off. Dzeko had his chances too but K Paps made some great challenges on him. What's with Dzeko pulling down Sokratis shorts? The Bosnian fans were a disgrace hopefully UEFA disciplines them!

Bosnian fans reacted to "knife wire srebrenica" which to be fair was probably done by Serb fans working in greece. http://www.klix.ba/sport/nogomet/navijaci-grcke-tokom-utakmice-digli-transparent-noz-zica-srebrenica/161113084

greece goes to Zenica now so should be very interesting. 

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Full Match Preview incoming.
We played poorly, I agree, but not as poorly as everyone decides to propose we did. Second half I saw one chance from Bosnia and 3-4 good ones from us.

DEFENCE:Ibisevic, Dzeko, Pjanic , Lulic they are world class , all of them. And what did they really get? Their crucial chances were a Pjanic shot at  75' and a lucky static shot at the woodwork. You make it look like their other chances were awesome. Our defence , kept only one lucky goal from that offence, and with one of our starter CBs missing. Maniatis and Samaris were very poor offensively, in fact they were very poor in total, but they never left their defensive duties unattended. The only mistakes I give our defence are 2, and both go to our best player: a) Sokratis failing an offside trap on Dzeko, but shortly after making up for it. b) Sokratis making a foul for almost no reason (since help was comming from Stafylidis in less than 2 clicks o time) which gave them the lead.

MIDFIELD: Lost from the beginning, poor game from Samaris, Maniatis running up and down but really nothing useful with the ball on his feet. I really hope Zeka takes Maniatis spot as he is the exactly same type of player (running up and down marking players, and not the best option to help offensively). Tachtsidis creativity would have given us more up front and far more chances. I really believe the whole reason our offense is not working, despite having very creative players like Fortounis, Mantalos, Gianniotas in it , is there exists no transition in the midfield. My belief on this? Skibbe has the "ας κρατησουμε το 0 Priority" so he always fills the midfield with fully defensive and fast moving players. And to be fair, its working,

OFFENCE: Mantalos not existent, not at all. Did nothing up front but can't really blame him. Lulic was on that side, and he had to help Toro in his defensive duties( I 'll say more on the rating part.). Mitroglou had some real good chances , like that cross that didnt even realise it could go through, and the tet-a-tet that begovic luckily kept out with his shoulder. Best chance to make sure it goes on was to shoot it that way, it was a good shot, and I liked that he kept his calm and shot so well. Save was even better. Also was ready to receive that cross from Toro with his head with excelent positioning. Guy needs good serving , but when he gets it, u re sure he ll score. Nothing more to say.Fortounis got it with the long shot, Had an exactly same chance with Belarus, boy seems unlucky. Pretty closed from 2 players of Bosnia 24/7 but the other 2 midfielders(Yes im talking abotu Sama/Maniati) didn't take advante from it. What possibly happened? As I previously mentioned, they were only supposed to have defensive duties. If that's what really happened, is Skibbe to blame? Yes.
Stafylidis off position, but another player who was playing midfield/offence but was seen lots of time covering for Tzavellas and even helping him. I don't know why Tzavellas took the MVP award and not him. Really proves to be better everytime he plays. I expect him to be in the starting line up against Belgium as well, because we are gonna need someone extra to defend. He and Gianniotas seemed to be the best players who can control high balls in 1 touch. He had a good run which he crossed to Mitroglou but im my humble opinion he should have shot it(even if it was with his right foot). I expect him to get a good signing in 1-2 years, really shows passion with the team, and is a key player of a mediocre bundesliga team at this age.

Gianniotas really gives breath to the team. Fast runs, smart no look passes and such. There is lots of room for improvement, but he is better than anyone we ve tried at Right Flank. He is too hessitant to shoot because he is afraid of being called selfish. I hope this changes.

GK: He was very very good, Nothing could be done at the goal. Seeing how bad the Cypriot GK is makes it obvious we are lucky to have him. Just lets hope we don't need a penalty shootout, ever?

Karnezis :8
Torosidis :7. Why do you hate? He has a guy named Lulic to mark , and that guy is fast as hell, he made him look useless, of course you can't expect him to be as good as he was in previous matches offensively , when we were playing nonamer oppositions.

Sokratis: 6 Our worst defender today. Talking about defensive duties only. made a foul for no reason and we conceded from it, failed an offside trap but made up for it. Got more than 4 because he literally kicked Dzeko out of the game by being annoying. This gave us the opportunity to  pressure and actually score. Stupid to give that foul, knowing that Bosnians on set pieces are literally beast mode.

K. Papadopoulos: 6. Did no real mistake but he was missmatched when marking Dzeko, who was his initial personal opponent. That's why Manolas would be a lot more handy here. At points when he was on Ibisevic, he was fine.

Tzavellas: 6,5. He scored, but most of the chances came again from his side, Stafylidis spent half the match helping him. Also scared to go high a lot, probably Skibbe orders. 

Maniatis 4. Runs a lot, applies pressure to opponents who try to create a chance.Always there when needed in defence, we never were outnumbered in defence because of both Maniatis and Samaris. But, no help in transition, no offensive help to Fortounis who was marked by 2. Maybe Skibbe orders as well.

Samaris 4.  Looked like he was playing a 3rd Centerback. Poor passes and kept the ball for no reason at points.

*Bonus for Samaris-Maniatis combo: Can't really say we saw Pjanic do his usual magic tricks. I didn't really keep an eye on what was happening on the field, Im a guy who keeps looking at the ball, the guys who tape and rewatch the match can tell us. Possibility these 2 were unseen is that their dirty work was to keep Pjanic at bay. Until we rewatch the match we can't tell. If they really did this, they deserve a lot better ranking and a lot less hate.

Fortounis: 6 No mistake, no losing the ball on bad spots, has vision but plays very high to utilize it. Was well closed from the opponent mids.

Mantalos: 5. Helped torosidis a lot with Lulic. Nothing offensively. Combined well with Toro and Fortounis to make the crossbar chance happen.

Gianniotas 6. Pressured the enemy defender but that guy looks buffed as f*ck. 50 kg against 80 can't get you much. Won the crucial free throw that got us the goal, deserves credit. TV presenters said he was not given a couple of fouls. I disagree with them. 

Stafylidis: 7. The real MVP for me. Running, crossing, defending. Everything, was everywhere. Gonna be a key player for the NT. Slightly overrated because he played out of position, and still made it.

Mitroglou: 5,5. Had his chances, didn't execute. He should have delivered at least once.

TooLong-Didn'tRead version: We were bad at first half becuase we were afraid to play offensively. We played offensively at 2nd half and I think we dominated it.(alongside bosnian coach helping us). Bosnian offence needed defensive care, and we had what it takes to keep them at bay.Sokratis bad match. Few key chances for us like woodworks and tetatets. Draw deserved in total. Reminds of old Greek NT. 



 

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1 hour ago, ELLAS75 said:

Pjanic missed a great opportunity top of the box could have finished the game off. Dzeko had his chances too but K Paps made some great challenges on him. What's with Dzeko pulling down Sokratis shorts? The Bosnian fans were a disgrace hopefully UEFA disciplines them!

I don't like to get into these kind of things, but your fans brought a banner mocking the Bosnian genocide:

CxLTiMjXAAEh2TU.jpg

Either way, congratulations on the draw. Never been more heartbroken after a game before than this... See you in Zenica.

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1 minute ago, aek66 said:

don't get me wrong, he is a good player...very good vision and at times, his passing and shooting are equal to his vision. 

but, if you fall in love with this player he will break your heart. he is too weak to be a top level player. again, he isn't fast enough to run away - with the ball - from challenges and i saw him get shoulder destroyed by players of less quality, but more physically stronger.

if he has time and space, he will hurt anyone. unfortunately, that is true about many, many players. the higher the competition with quality opponents, the less time and space.

 

Well you said the exact same thing with different words. Problem is , most of hte time with better or worse opposition, Fortounis tends to find time and space at least 1-2 in the match to throw a good assist/make hte shot himself. It's almost inevitable for a player not to be found at a good point. If he utilizes it well, the team profits. Upcomming Belgian who will possibly mark him is going to be Nainggollan or Witsel. Witsel is of a very offensive mentality, while Nainggolan makes some anger-based fouls. Fortounis will get his chances. Utilizing them is another story.

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6 minutes ago, Pana97 said:

I have been celebrating this crucial draw, and to some degree was mad at the Bosnians (Dzeko mostly) for his comments after the match. But now that I see this I totally disagree with our fans doing this. Genocide is not something to be joking about. Greeks have had a genocide committed on them and that is not right for our fans to do that. I can assure you not all Greeks are stupid like those fans. 

Where can I seeDzeko comments?

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Thanks for your words in response guys, I am aware that 99.99% of you wouldn't do something like this stupid banner. I enjoyed the game overall and thought that Greece deserved to score after Mitroglou's two shots but it obviously sucks from my point of view :D. 

 

On another note, Belgium seem to be completely massacring teams at home. Good luck over there.

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1 hour ago, ELLAS75 said:

What has happened to Samaris since the World Cup? He looks like a disaster out there.

He's hardly played at all this season.  He's far from match fit.  He played 90 minutes last week for the first time since his injury.  So between him and Maniatis you have a midfield that isn't match fit.  Taxi injured.  Tziolis not at NT level for 4 years.  Midfield is a real problem, our biggest problem in my opinion, although there are issues all over the pitch.

I don't see a "fix" given that Skibbe is getting results.  3 win, 1 draw, 9 goals for, 2 goals against.  Everything is going great!

Taxi is the only player I would put any stock on developing as a regular starter.  He shows enough in his Serie A games to see he is better than the rest.  Samaris maybe once he's match fit but right now he shouldn't be in the starting 11.  Maniatis and Tziolis should retire and become pundits.  I would be interested to hear there take on the NT.

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1 hour ago, aek66 said:

to me, he is not a captain. he is a poser, someone who isn't skilled/confident enough and tries to trick the referee. his mates know this, they can't help but see it. i believe that toro is a weak captain. toro was right there with the sokratis x dzeko incident. all he has to do is give a look and his mates will back off. toro is allowed to give some lip to the referee. kpaps did what he wanted, where he wanted and when he wanted.

+1 that's all.

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1 hour ago, Original Sydney said:

Those idiots who took out that banner are a bunch of F***wits. We have suffered genocides so to mock others is pretty dumb. I don't see why we support Serbia so much and don't give me this "orthodox brotherhood" bullshit as it doesn't exist.

The next match is going to be a fierce one.

In my opinion this happens solely because of olympiakos connection to red star Belgrade. These Serbs are getting to the stadium because of the connection they have with oly fans. We saw the same s%$#! against Croatia. It's ridiculous, and gotta stop.

I doubt it would have happened at OAKA.

Edited by KOLOSSOS13
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1 hour ago, aek66 said:

don't get me wrong, he is a good player...very good vision and at times, his passing and shooting are equal to his vision. 

but, if you fall in love with this player he will break your heart. he is too weak to be a top level player. again, he isn't fast enough to run away - with the ball - from challenges and i saw him get shoulder destroyed by players of less quality, but more physically stronger.

if he has time and space, he will hurt anyone. unfortunately, that is true about many, many players. the higher the competition with quality opponents, the less time and space.

+1 again.  If Greece had other attacking players that were more threatening, he may find some space that way to work in, but this is not the case.  It's time for him to leave Greece and play in a real league where it's tough games week in week out.  This doesn't guarantee anything, just look at Samaris, but it's still the right thing to do at this point.  I hope he gets picked up by a Serie A team where he's a starter.

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20 minutes ago, KOLOSSOS13 said:

In my opinion this happens solely because of olympiakos connection to red star Belgrade. These Serbs are getting to the stadium because of the connection they have with only fans. We saw the same s%$#! against Croatia. It's ridiculous, and gotta stop.

I doubt it would have happened at OAKA. 

That wouldn't surprise me at all mate as it was only the other day Oly fans went to the friendly vs Belarus and started chanting Oly chants and also having a go at Tzavellas. Dumb ass Greeks these guys, they put their so called Serb brothers ahead of their own nation.

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4 minutes ago, ProudHellene said:

The Serbia obsession is one of the weirdest aspects of Greeks. All because of a retarded obsession with religion and making them "brothers" because of it. 

On a different topic- Tzavella: "Ohhhhhh what a HIT son! WHAT. A. HIT."

Serbs & Russians don't give a F*** about us no matter how much people wana say "orthodox brotherhood" iv been to 2 world cups and a couple euros and when Australia played Serbia hardly any serbs spoke to us even with the Greek flag with us, only 3 of them took a pic with us the rest barely gave us any notice. Then in 2012 when we played the Russian only 1 of 30,000 said orthodox brother to us, they don't care for us people need to wake up and realise it!!

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2 minutes ago, ThrylosG7 said:

@Original Sydney

It used to be much more common for this to happen in Greece Pre Otto era - I have seen it happen sometimes since 2004 as well. This time it was Oly fans - I saw it happen with Paok fans years ago. In Greece many of the Ultras dont care for the NT at all as they are anarchists - which is why we dont get great atmospheres at the NT games- but thats another topic. Interestingly enough - in other countries that have a large Ultras scene - they have codes of conduct among themselves - including suspension of hostilities for NT games . I used to Sotiris Kyrgiakos with a passion - however when he played for the NT I wanted him to play well for the team ..and I went crazy if he scored a goal because it was for Greece - didnt change how I felt about him - but I'm not going to undermine my own team by booing one of its players - Many Ultras in Greece cant do that...which makes me wonder why they bother going at all.

I know this mate and have seen it at every major event I have been too and I have always said IF the Greeks could put their club rivalry aside we would be one of the best and most feared fan bases in Europe. In 2012 we got voted best fans at the Euros in Poland, opening game there was 55,000 polish fans and only 2,500 of us and at times we were louder than they were.

But us Greeks would rather hate on our own than unite.

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