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athinaios

Education In Greece

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I think one of the foundations of a modern, enlightened, and successful society is the educational system. Unfortunately, this is one of the many institutions that has been in crisis. Even the various governments don't know what to make of it other than proceed with big reforms only to be undone by the next government.

What are your thoughts?

I will write more, but I'm sure you have lots to say about this topic, so fire on....

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the problem with the education system in greece is that you can write and write and write exams till eternity

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I don't understand how you can advance and even take other courses if you don't pass a course. In the US, it's either you pass or you don't. If you don't you can retake the course once more. However, if you don't maintain a "C" average, you're thrown out. It's the same in private and public universities. Actually, the public U's are becoming harder, and better, because the demand is so great, due to high tuition at private colleges, so the publics can raise their standards.

It's not good that you have "students" in Greek universities  that have been there forever. They take seats and resources away...

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education in greece is a vehicle for the far left to spread propaganda..

 

they ideologically reject the notion that universities are there to provide future workforce for the 'capitalist' system..

the Prime minister himself benefited from being a professional university agitator and rock thrower..

the lao will protect this belief to death...

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Remember when Tsipras' time at university was revealed? His professors said they never even saw him. How long did it take him to complete his degree? 10 years.

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8 hours ago, RED SHERIFF said:

education in greece is a vehicle for the far left to spread propaganda..

 

they ideologically reject the notion that universities are there to provide future workforce for the 'capitalist' system..

the Prime minister himself benefited from being a professional university agitator and rock thrower..

the lao will protect this belief to death...

You may be right, but it's a broad statement, don't you think? For years, it was the ND youth branch that won student elections. So all sides have used higher ed (universities) to peddle their party politics and ideologies.

As for "leftist" propaganda, it's the SYRIZA gov that kept  the teaching of religion as indoctrination* course in high school. This is a violation of the principle (leftist?) of church-state separation.

In my opinion, all parties have mishandled education in Greece, worse with higher ed, but also with high school where most Greeks get their education from since only a tiny % gets to higher-ed schools.

 

*not at comparative, analytical study of religion(s) but as a tool to keep Greeks faithful to the church

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30 minutes ago, athinaios said:

You may be right, but it's a broad statement, don't you think? For years, it was the ND youth branch that won student elections.

I never knew this. Do you have a link for it. 

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  • 1976-1985: Αρχικά η ΔΑΠ-ΝΔΦΚ σταθεροποιείται και μετά το 1981 αυξάνει σημαντικά τα ποσοστά της.
  • 1987: Καταλαμβάνει την πρώτη θέση στις φοιτητικές εκλογές με ποσοστό περίπου 27%
  • 1990: Σημειώνεται το μεγαλύτερο ποσοστό που κατακτά ποτέ και αγγίζει το 47%
  • 2010: Η ΔΑΠ-ΝΔΦΚ παραμένει πρώτη με ποσοστό 40%
  • Στις φοιτητικές εκλογές του 2012 αναδείχτηκε για 26η συνεχή χρονιά πρώτη φοιτητική παράταξη με ποσοστό 42,89% στα Πανεπιστήμια και 54,61% στα ΤΕΙ,πανελλαδικά

source

 

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One other fundamental problem is that (not only in Greece) that people want to get a higher degree in order to get a job--and some jobs pay you more because of it even if the degree has nothing to do with your profession. They don't care about the subject of study, and if I'm not mistaken high school grads just want to get in to higher ed schools regardless of the course of study.

If I couldn't study what I liked, I'd not be motivated, like any degree in chemistry, medicine, etc, would not motivate me. Yeah, keep taking those exams for 10 years, maybe I'd get lucky or they'd get tired of me.:dizzy:

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I think it's important to get an education, which is more than vocational training. For me, the mind is important and I want to cultivate it, seek higher pleasures (as some philosophers put it) instead of low pleasures. It gives more meaning to and understanding of life.

But, doing a job you like (perhaps, love) should be extremely important too. We spend so much of our lives doing something so we can pay the bills, so I'd tell everyone, try to have a profession you like, even if it's for less money. Obviously, the money has to be enough to pay the bills. Poverty or struggling to pay bills is horrible.

Yeah, it's rare to wake up in the morning and say to yourself, I'm excited to go to work today because I'll be doing something interesting and personally fulfilling. No job is perfect or good all the time, I know. Yet, I couldn't survive if I did something that I hated more than for a short time; and believe me, I've had those jobs that were killing me slowly, but fortunately they were not the norm in my working life.

 

Edited by Hudson
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To my knowledge, schools in Greece teach the bare essentials, if a child hopes to attend university their family will have to pay for a tutor, the cost of which varies but can get rather expensive.

I've heard the entrance exam for University undergrads is almost impossible to pass without the student having been tutored from middle school onward.

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So to sum up, secondary education in Greece it is an extremely elitist system up until university - where it becomes grossly inefficient and violently ideological. 

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I don't know much about the recent developments under SYRIZA, but it's my impression the educational system is failing. I know about how difficult it is to get to higher ed (universities), so it's even more important to have a great high school, since for most Greeks this is the education they'll ever get.

The curse of the tutoring system has been around for at least 50 years. It's not only unfair but questions whether education is free for all. Yeah, taxes pay for it, but if you want your kid to learn you have to pay extra for tutors.

So, it's got to be something else they can do to fix the problem. What other advanced countries do? It can't be a secret.

Education is learning about the fundamentals, not necessarily the most obscure details, and above all how to think, how to analyze, find the relevant points, express your thoughts in a coherent way. You want educated citizens, who have been exposed to good pedagogy. All goods flow from this.  Society, politics, business, etc, all benefit from a good educational foundation.

But, if you teach religious bullshit (stories that would not pass any serious mind as true or logical or even probable) and try to indoctrinate students into sheeple, then this is a sign that good reform ain't happening. One Greek academic (a lady I forget her name) recently said that Greece has not been touched by the Enlightenment (17-18th+ centuries), and I shook my head in sadness.

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The need for 'tutoring'  has been created by the teaching fraternity to make money....

its part of the greek system of 'protecting industries' to make money..

they teach the kids 80% of what needs to be taught to pass high school knowing full well the parents will pay extra for the other 20% needed to pass...

the education curriculum could easily be engineered to ensure students are taught in school what they need to pass...

but its just another example of how far behind Greece is in a socio political sense.  

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Good points you're all making. But, education, primary and secondary is very important since most Greeks can't go to universities. This is where you forge the new generations, so you want to give them as much formal education as possible, but an education that can be useful.

I don't think most of the effort & expense should be to enter the universities, because as I understand it, the system has only a certain number of seats available (please correct me if I'm wrong) then that's it. So if you have 100 seats you admit 100 students regardless of their actual level of education. All is relevant.

Education should not be a political game, to change it every few years and only by half measures. There should be a national consensus among the parties how to give the best to the students. Teach them math, science (and the scientific method), proper history, stop the religious indoctrination (OK, this is political), give them good skills, teach them English, business, consumerism, etc. skills that would benefit a thinking, responsible adult. And, if possible, give them a couple years of community school (as we call them here in the states) and vocational training.

Edited by Hudson

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Are there any statistics on how many high school students are missing out on a University Education, due to the apparent lack of places ?  Is it 1 in 10, 5 in 10, worse than that ?

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I'd also like to know, the graduation rate and the length of it. In the US, roughly speaking 50% of high school seniors go to college and 50% of them graduate, in 5 or 6 yrs.  But, the system is different in the US. I think anyone who wants to go to college can find one, even if it's a community college (2 yr) and then transfer to a 4yr college.

What is the formal name of the education dpt in Greece?...

Edited by Hudson

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15 minutes ago, Hudson said:

What is the formal name of the education dpt in Greece?...

Ministry of Bourdelia ?

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The official name is something like Dept of Education and Religion! I think they recently added "research" to the title. For all the leftist (Marxist) talk of SYRIZA, they remain partners (in crime). It's a crime to have a sub-standard education.  And, all the frequent changes aren't good. They need to have a national policy on this.

The political parties are criminally responsible for turning the universities into battle zones. Nowhere in the advanced world there is this chaos and violence seen in Greek U's. I wonder what kind of teaching the professors are able to do when they're interrupted during lectures, their offices are smashed, and even the buildings set on fire during "occupation" stints!

I also hear that some years there is no teaching going on for months because of various reasons. How do you expect the students to get proper instruction and experience in this kind of environment.

Maybe they should turn the whole thing into online "learning" so no need to have bldgs and face to face interaction. Obviously I don't think online learning is good, or as good as in-class, but it can't be worse than what's going on in the U's for decades.:cry:

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