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Road To Russia 2018 FIFA World Cup

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i can't believe half the stuff i read in here. to some, it's clear that greece and portugal are interchangeable...you just need a mastermind like santos to take you to places you've never been before. you can make a euro final and a WC knockout match with arguably the world's best player and if santos' greece starters get injured and suspended and you make a WC knockout match with a football message board's 11.

 

 - first off, posters that don't post and wait until something happens and then post as though they knew it all along...should be banned.

 

 - if it wasn't for an expanded tournament, portugal go home after the 3-3 with hungary. portugal then defeats world powers; poland and wales in the Q/F and S/F. i would bet money that the same posters that are praising santos would have told us 14 years ago that turkey played nobodies in ivory coast and senegal to make a WC S/F. this isn't about portugal or santos, it's really about greece and "how good we really are, despite what the english say about us".

 

 - santos has ronaldo...for the 1002th time, arguably the world's best footballer. was that santos who jumped and headed the cross in against wales? and who does that for greece against NI or finland? samaras? oops.

 

santos this, santos that...santos DIDN'T WANT TO STAY. katsouranis had no club until october, in india. how is santos calling him, playing him and greece is winning football matches?

 

 

czech republic, bosnia, germany and colombia needed oxygen against greece.

 

i don't blame ranieri totally. i blame sammy the slacker, fetfa, salpi, manolas, torosidis, xolebas, mitroglou and sokratis. one friendly and samaris and petsos are paul ince and bastian schweinsteiger.

 

how did slovakia's 1-3 friendly victory over germany play out in a meaningful match with germany 3 weeks later?

 

 

It is a good post.

 

One cannot compare Portugal to Greece under Santos - as there is a vast inequality in the standard of players between the two nations. However one should note and not dismiss that the Portuguese media have been calling Santos' brand of football (up until last night) boring and unwatchable. He is a conservative manager. As Chris Coleman states, Portugal sat deep against Wales and that was a massive compliment to Wales.

 

The problem with the Greek NT for me is bi-fold.

 

  •  Lack of progressive selection. We can get someone like Fetfa. Total confidence based player. As fragile as they come. He can play a superb game - and instead of being selected as a starter next game - we don't seem him anywhere near the 11 for months afterwards.. Then when we do call upon him - he looks like he doesn't know anyone on the pitch.. because he doesn't.. Same with Ninis. A good game that wins a game should result in a fixed position in the 11 for a few games.. the way inferior players like Lazaros and Kone were granted. Greece does not have a deluge of talented players waiting to fill every position - so therefore - any light - any exhibition of ability should be nurtured. That has simply not been the case with NT. The problem of 'favourites' is related to this. Katsouranis has been replaced by Tziolis. We have not won a game with Tziolis in the starting 11 since 2013. To repeat, Greece has a dearth of talent and can't afford to let players like Tziolis and Lazaros anywhere near the 11. In the modern game, teams like Lichtenstein and Iceland will put out their best 11 - the fact that Greece is incapable of doing this basic task explains away the problems we have had. Another facet of this is sticking with players who have damaged the NT. Stafylidis is single-handedly responsible for more losses in the last qualifying campaign than any other player. He did not do this on purpose. His problem is that he is a poor left back. However to continue to force him upon the NT.. now in the midfield.. is absurd and representative of how delusional the NT structures are.

 

  • Disorganisation, lack of discipline and lack of a plan. Nothing was built to harness the passion and success of 2004. To this day - the EPO seem incapable of making sensible decisions. Poor selection of friendly fixtures, disorganised training facilities, lack of ambition, apathy and above all - a deep sense of amateur professionalism. We passed by Bielsa and Michel for Markarian and Skibbe. Says it all. Someone as partisan as Karagounis should have never been given that power. The whole organisation needs replacing.

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You trying to point out we need to prepare for Belgium now ? No bro, realistic aim is 2nd spot, we aim to winning all other matches until then , while preparing for that much "on our free time".

 

 if one is to be judged a good coach its about getting results v the big teams..

 

of course we are not preparing for Belgium from now...but a good coach will have us ready for match day.

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Draw Gibraltar 5-5
Draw Cyprus 2-2

Draw Estonia 0-0

Win Bosnia 2-0

Win Belgium 1-0

Lose to Gibraltar

Lose to Cyprus

Win bosnia 4-1

Win Belgium 1-0

Win Estonia 1-0

My face when Cyprus makes it to the world cup, but at least our coach won Belgium and BiH, sooo :D

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I also don't understand the sudden love for Santos from some on this board. Go back and watch our games in qualifying and major tournaments under him and you'll see the truth: horrific, dysfunctional, donkey-ball (see how Russia played during Euro 2016 to get a good estimate of this). Now admittedly, we had a few good games under him (Romania playoff, Ivory Coast WC come to mind) but that was always the exception rather than the rule. Did we grind out results? Sure; but eking out 1-0 wins by the skin-of-our-teeth against nothing teams was never going to be sustainable going forward; especially as the rest of Europe is getting better. Some will say that he did what he could with the personnel at his disposal. To that I say sure, if that personnel includes Kats, Kara, and Tziolis. I believe we have (and had at the time) better, and in my humble opinion Santos' biggest crime was not blooding the younger generation in sooner. Now we're left to reap what he's sown.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not laying all of the blame for the current debacle at his feet. The players should be ashamed of themselves for their abject lack of professionalism and shockingly poor form. EPO should be ashamed of themselves for their terrible planning and mismanagement (and corruption but that goes without saying). 

 

As for Santos, I congratulate him on his results with Portugal but I still contend that they've been lucky. They did not play well during the group stage and they've been lucky to have a (relatively) easy path to the final. 

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^^Ya sure ban the posters that actually know something....One of you Santos and Karagounis haters even started a poll taking a survey if Greece should actually go to Brazil after qualifying, because you were ashamed of our NT team's style....Are you happy now? You know nothing about what it takes to build a winner!!!

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there's no luck here. Croatia beat Spain the defending champs, which Portugal beat. Wales beat Belgium a heavy favour to win the whole thing. Portugal basically beat Belgium and Spain by beating the people who beat them in a way.

 

It depends on your perspective, but their success is not mostly because of luck. It's because Santos is one of the best international managers, RONALDO, a golden generation, and chemistry.

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While the perception is that Santos did not "develop" talent, we have to remember that is not his job.  That is the job of the club teams and EPO.  My biggest grip with him was that he played Katsouranis and Karagounis regardless of form. Their leadership though is what he valued and it showed.  Whether you like him or not, he did go 17 games without a loss (regardless of whom we played) and will go down as the 1st or 2nd best manager in Greece's history.

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The record speaks for itself....He's the second most successful Greek coach in history, and was the first to get us past the group stages in the world cup!!! To simply put, Greece over achieved during Santos years. Some of you in here have trouble understanding that Greece does not have the talent for TEKI TAKA football....And players like Fetfa are losers and will cost you goals against in the long run. Ninis another lazy bum, you build with guts and heart my friends!!!!

Edited by jvc
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I am neither sentimental for Santos nor envious of Portugal. Good luck to them but Santos had his time as Greece coach and he was equally part frustrating and fortunate as well to have had on paper, a seemingly decent run.

Although I preferred Santos to Otto's reign post Euro 2004, I still don't understand the yearning for him.

He was dire at Euro 2012. How he picked Chalkias to be his starting keeper let alone even having him in the squad was ridiculous. Picking Avraam as his starting central defender was equally self-sabotaging when you consider the season that Kyriakos Papa had. Thankfully through luck (as in injury) both of these players had little influence and Santos's hand was forced. However against Germany when the whole world was watching he was so frustratingly conservative that he again sabotaged us.

OK, he overachieved if you compare him with Otto post 2004, but that just shows how much Rehhagel had seriously lost the plot post Euro 2004 and was embarrassing for Greece.

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Aek66 who are you referring to as Sammy the slacker in our Euro qualifying campaign under Ranieri? Samaras? He was never called up. No team and heartbroken after his wife dumped him.

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we don't have many that can set up a goal , so ninis and fetzfa can still help.

 

but I honestly understand everybodys frustration here.

Edited by nasl

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there's no luck here. Croatia beat Spain the defending champs, which Portugal beat. Wales beat Belgium a heavy favour to win the whole thing. Portugal basically beat Belgium and Spain by beating the people who beat them in a way.

 

It depends on your perspective, but their success is not mostly because of luck. It's because Santos is one of the best international managers, RONALDO, a golden generation, and chemistry.

 

With all due respect, Croatia had the better chances that game and probably should have won. Credit to Portugal though, they kept holding and eventually eked it out at the end. IMHO, if you replayed that match 10 times, Croatia probably wins more than they lose. As for Wales, let's not forget they were without Ramsay for the semi-final which is obviously a huge loss for them. I also don't subscribe to the theory that if you beat team "x" who previously beat team "y" then you've essentially beat team "y". Teams stack up and match up differently; ex: France beat Germany who previously beat Italy; that doesn't mean that France would automatically beat Italy.  

 

Portugal are indeed a talented team and are blessed to have one of the best players in the world, but that does not change the fact that they've played poorly throughout a large part of this tournament (for which some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the manager) and that they've had an easy path to the final, lucky or not I guess it depends on your perspective ;)

 

While the perception is that Santos did not "develop" talent, we have to remember that is not his job.  That is the job of the club teams and EPO.  My biggest grip with him was that he played Katsouranis and Karagounis regardless of form. Their leadership though is what he valued and it showed.  Whether you like him or not, he did go 17 games without a loss (regardless of whom we played) and will go down as the 1st or 2nd best manager in Greece's history.

 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me but I wanted to clarify that when I said "blooding the younger generation in" I did not mean develop players. What I meant was getting these players into the line-ups sooner to get some NT games under their belts, create chemistry, build a system, etc. The time to really do this was during friendlies leading up to tournaments. This might have allowed us to have a few guys ready to step in when those times came that Kats, Kara, etc were in poor form or not playing for their clubs. I have a theory (and again, I have no evidence for this, it's just a theory so take it for what it's worth): I think Santos knew he was leaving and really didn't care much about the future or planning for the post-Kats/Kara era. Come WC14 he went with what he knew and who he trusted. Ironically, his hand was forced by injuries/suspensions and guys like Samaris and Christodoulopoulos stepped up during the Ivory Coast game, and the rest is history. 

 

The record speaks for itself....He's the second most successful Greek coach in history, and was the first to get us past the group stages in the world cup!!! To simply put, Greece over achieved during Santos years. Some of you in here have trouble understanding that Greece does not have the talent for TEKI TAKA football....And players like Fetfa are losers and will cost you goals against in the long run. Ninis another lazy bum, you build with guts and heart my friends!!!!

 

I would challenge you to point out one poster who has advocated that we play tiki-taka football. It's ok, I'll wait. Regarding our style of play, I think some posters here may have trouble understanding the difference between sound, defensive, counter-attacking football (see Greece 2004) and dysfunctional donkey-ball. As for building a team, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. It takes hard-working, disciplined, AND talented players. 

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With all due respect to Ellas, jvc, what I want to know is what would have Santos done differently? Ellas is just saying Santos is better than the managers we have had since he left and we would have qualified for this Euro, my question is what would have he done differently to what we saw? A different midfield??

 

As I said many years ago, and as aek66 & Reaper point out, he is a big part for our now failure. We had in form players who could have been gelled into the Ethniki but instead we had to watch meaningless friendlies with Kats walking along Tziolis forking out 1-0 wins some how. The last friendly before WC 14 vs Portugal (0-0) we did nothing until Fetfa came on and nearly won it himself. Kats then went on to play in India and a game for Heidelberg in Melbourne lol 

 

1.Santos wouldnt try to play offensively

2. Santos wouldnt put non-wingers players at winger positions. If he HAD to play wingers , he would play wingers there, not Diamantakos , and certainly not Mavrias.

3. Santos would lock the match against finland at 1-0 and wouldnt end up drawing.

4. Santos wouldnt run confused by calling in the NT every footballer who is elidgible for Greece

5. Santos wouldnt lose the dressing rooms. Players respected him for his qualifying campaigns and his achievements on Euro 12 and WC 14.

but most importantly and which is exactly what happened:

6. Santos would not stay for a corrupt Greek Federation.

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5. Santos wouldnt lose the dressing rooms. Players respected him for his qualifying campaigns and his achievements on Euro 12 and WC 14.

 

 

Santos lost the dressing in the 2014 WC. Maniatis got into a fist fight with Tzavellas. They were actually throwing punches on the training pitch in front of everyone.. and booked their flights to leave Brazil afterwards. Subsequent interviews by players have said the atmosphere was toxic in the WC among players, even Santos said the squad were out of control and there was bad feeling in the locker-room. Players talked about selfish attitudes.

 

WC Brazil - Santos officially had no control.. the players were divided along club lines - badly. No one denied this. He officially lost the dressing room in WC 2014.

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Comments in bold.

 

1.Santos wouldnt try to play offensively I don't know, I was pretty offended by his way of playing
2. Santos wouldnt put non-wingers players at winger positions. If he HAD to play wingers , he would play wingers there, not Diamantakos , and certainly not Mavrias. Oh, like Dpaps (twice)? Or Lazaros? Or Kone?

3. Santos would lock the match against finland at 1-0 and wouldnt end up drawing. Well that sounds easy. Would this be by decree?
4. Santos wouldnt run confused by calling in the NT every footballer who is elidgible for Greece Instead, he'd call just a handful of pappoudes

5. Santos wouldnt lose the dressing rooms. Players respected him for his qualifying campaigns and his achievements on Euro 12 and WC 14.

but most importantly and which is exactly what happened: Already happened
6. Santos would not stay for a corrupt Greek Federation. Already happened

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5.He never lost the dressing rooms. Players almost f*cked up the team psychology after the PAOK-OSFP incident and he fixed it HIMSELF.
6.Thanks for pointing out that it already happened captain obivous, he left and the corruption grew, its probably his fault the whole corrupt thing didnt make a big bam while he was the coach, because he obviously didnt let them do what they wanted.
2.Lazaros is a winger, Kone never exactly played as a winger, more like an attacking midfielder in the right half of the pitch, we didnt really see anyone else apart from Samaras and Salpigides and fetfatzidis.
Salpigidis was good at his age, keeping him for an extra year proves the lack of players in those positions.
 

Your comments are nice, I give you 10/10 for trying, but i only want to see Results.
Santos : Got us to 8 of the Euro
Almost got us to 8 of the WC

The others who trusted the new generation: Won a place in my heart.

Resultwise (and thats the only criteria, not just comments of

Edited by Rockafeller Skank
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5.He never lost the dressing rooms. Players almost f*cked up the team psychology after the PAOK-OSFP incident and he fixed it HIMSELF.

 

 

He didn't. Maniatis and Tzavellas were throwing punches at each other during training in Brazil. Santos later said the team spirit was toxic during the WC as did other players. Dressing room was lost I am afraid - Santos admitted as much HIMSELF. 

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He didn't. Maniatis and Tzavellas were throwing punches at each other during training in Brazil. Santos later said the team spirit was toxix during the WC as did other players. Dressing room was lost I am afraid - Santos admitted as much HIMSELF. 

 

I have seen articles talking about Santos bringing Tzavellas and Maniatis together and having a talk the 3 of them.

You can't like everybody, All you have to do is be professional , and obviously Maniatis was, as he was not giving a F*** and playing as good as he can. We made it to the R16 this is a success. Im not sure if you can call the dressing room lost when you see our players playing basketball and having fun in videos (ofc thats just the truth they want the people to see) during the WC. Their tryharding as a team in all 4 games proves u wrong. The fact that none of them came out and blamed Gekas (even if they wanted to do exactly that) proves u wrong again.

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I have seen articles talking about Santos bringing Tzavellas and Maniatis together and having a talk the 3 of them.

You can't like everybody, All you have to do is be professional , and obviously Maniatis was, as he was not giving a F*** and playing as good as he can. We made it to the R16 this is a success. Im not sure if you can call the dressing room lost when you see our players playing basketball and having fun in videos (ofc thats just the truth they want the people to see) during the WC. Their tryharding as a team in all 4 games proves u wrong. The fact that none of them came out and blamed Gekas (even if they wanted to do exactly that) proves u wrong again.

 

 

The players and the coach said there were problems in the dressing room during the WC. Besides this there was actual fist fight in training between players in training. I will trust that evidence over your statement as I believe anyone else would. As for what they achieved during the WC - plenty of teams with problems in the dressing room go far, Figo and Deco at each other's throats throughout Euro 2004 and various other examples prove that. So your 'Their tryharding as a team in all 4 games proves u wrong' is total nonsense and shows a deep lack understanding of how football works. 

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^^Only a stupid manager would start players that can't make it at club level, and some of them can't even dominate the SUPA league!!! Fetfa, Ninis and the gang are soft loser players that's why Santos didn't trust in them. Lets move on because this argument is getting very silly. Santos is a world class manager end of argument!

Edited by jvc
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^^Only a stupid manager would start players that can't make it at club level

 

 

That was half the Greek NT starting 11, where have you been the last 10 years? Dellas and significant players in the Euro 2004 sides could not hold down a starting 11 spot at their clubs - how can you not know that?

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^^Dellas had 50 appearances playing on a powerhouse Roma team! Karagounis and Kats? Big G on Bolton? Basinas PAO and Theo on PAOK? Our left and right back did you forget them?

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Setaridis, Liberopoulos and Fyssas?....I think they all had many CL games under their belt?

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