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Should Britain Leave EU?  

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  1. 1. Should Britain Leave EU?



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Although Ipsos has been seen as a rather reliable source, I am not sure the company of a person who has close ties to the Conservative party can be counted on. Especially on this topic.

However if you would like to open an immigration debate then I am all ears.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2019 at 10:45 AM, Athens4 said:

I cannot believe that there are Greeks living in the UK who actually still think the EU is what it claims to be.

The EU is a gang that serves the interests of central Europe only (more so Germany). It is nothing more than a group run by bullies who every so often throw scraps to the followers being led to slaughter. This has nothing to do with racism and people need to stop using this card. Indeed there are racist people in every country and at the end of the day if you are unemployed while foreigners are coming here and finding jobs with no connections and having English as a second or third language then you yourself are the problem. Not everyone who voted out thinks like this and I would say this is a minority. In fact there are many people like myself who are for open borders worldwide. If we were really were in a European Union or United Nations we would strive to ensure that struggling countries were helped up to the level of those prospering (though this is another debate altogether).

The first crime the EU made was having member states adopt the same currency. Why on Earth does Greece, Ireland, Spain Portugal and Italy have the same currency as German, Belgium, France and Luxemburg? You do not need to be an economist to recognise that not only are the economies in each country different but also the cultures are in some cases incomparable. The plan had already been implemented, however this is when the strategy to take over Europe began to take shape. Now we see Greek, Italian and Spanish public and private entities being bought up by German, French and Austrian private and public institutions. Before any of you say it - yes, the Greeks and the Italians should blame themselves first for the state of the country. For years people were enjoying the free money, working in the public sector etc. However, the central European governments knew very well what was going on. The fact that nobody at Goldman Sachs was prosecuted for manipulating Greece's debt figures is a farce.

With regards to a referendum, if you are unsure of what may come then you probably shouldn't put the vote to the people. Cameron did and people voted out. It doesn't matter if it was only 52.89%, the majority still won. I have heard the argument "oh, but it was only a small margin" hundreds of times and it is quite pathetic to be honest. Ajax and Tottenham drew the other night on aggregate. What would we say if Ajax argued "But Tottenham only won because of the away goal rule, so it isn't really a win. We should have another game to really decide this time." Yes, that's right, let's just keep having referendums until the remainers get what they want.

"People were lied to by politicians". Is this something new? Were some of you born yesterday? Politicians have been doing this for centuries.

Wake up! All of the difficulties that we are and/or may end up experiencing is just the EU trying to make an example of the UK for daring to leave. It is like the EU is saying "This is what happens to anyone who wants to leave", while looking at likes of Spain, Greece, Ireland (and maybe even France from what I have understood). I laugh at people like Tusk and Junker who 'offer' extensions to the UK and I laugh harder at the remainers who say "The EU is really handing us a lifeline right now and being kind to us while we have been absolute idiots." You absolute f*&kwits, the EU needs the UK to stay otherwise it could be the beginning of the end for them.

Quite surprised that some of you undermine the UK so much considering the history it has of being one of the strongest nations worldwide, even before the EU.

You must be the turkey that voted for Christmas surely! You are not serious....

Your post is full of unsubstantiated claims. It's so shockingly bad that I don't even know where to start. Even worse than your PAOK posts....

1. "The EU is a gang". Oh yeah? Really? Because you say so? Because Farage says so?

2. "The first crime is the currency". Really? This is just BS. Greece WANTED to join. They weren't forced. Britain wanted to stay out, they were allowed to stay out. What are you on about?

3. Yes people were lied by politicians! Which makes this referendum a total farce!

4. What Brexit did you vote for do you know? Are you ready for no deal? Are you ready to possibly become poorer? You don't have answers for that, do you? What the hell do you think this is? The Darkest Hour movie? This is real life and stupid choices matter!

5. The EU is really handing us a lifeline right now and being kind to us while we have been absolute idiots." Again unsubstantiated bullshit. You have done your analysis and you are confirming that this isn't the case, right?

At least I voted remain, knowing that remain is clear, we carry on as is. I am happy with my life in Britain, extremely happy with quality of life and my income, so we remain and we fight from WITHIN the EU TO MAKE THINGS BETTER for the UK (clearly things can be improved but UK has the GRAVITAS to push for changes).

When you voted leave, which leave did you vote for? . Did you vote for Leave with a deal or no deal? WTO terms? Customs union? Border in IE? Admit that you had NO clue my friend. And don't just say "LEAVE is LEAVE" like those chavs or QT, because clearly we have seen that there are at least 10 versions of LEAVE, and if you go for NO DEAL LEAVE, be prepared for the worst. I am not saying it will happen, but I have NO proof that it won't happen either.

Do you know that most companies in the UK and particularly in the City are making plans to F*** off from the UK? Do you know what that will mean? And I am not going to say I know! But I do know that the little no risk position is to REMAIN. LEAVE is ANYONE'S GUESS, and that's the problem with it. Nobody has done an analysis, and nobody can guarantee anything. 

 

Edited by ukworm
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Posted (edited)
On 5/12/2019 at 3:17 PM, Bananas said:

A big part of the problem with Brexit, or rather the referendum, was it was in no way clear on what the consequences would be of leaving the EU.  And a big part of the problem with defining that, was, it hadn't been defined!  They are still trying to negotiate!  The entire process has been a farce.

The key issue was immigration (read cheap labor competing for jobs).  Even if this can be proven to be a falsehood (and I've never checked in detail) this was the key thing that turned most voters to vote pro-Brexit.  It's easy to preach about equality, inclusiveness, humanity and be an idealist.  Fine, open your borders, today, right now, and let 2 billion Chinese, Mexicans and Indians in.  Watch them take your jobs.  If not yours, those of many around you.  Not so appealing now ?  People will vote to protect "their way of life" and "getting rid of foreigners" is an easy play.  I was not surprised by the result.  I didn't think it'd get over the line, but at the same time I wasn't surprised.

What Britain should have done is used the referendum to broker some sort of a deal to limit immigration.  There was no need to leave the EU.

Now that it's done, Britain doesn't know which way to turn to broker a satisfactory deal.  Either way, they're going to get screwed in the short term as the EU will actively try and make life difficult.  In the long run, I guess we'll see if it was a good decision or not.  Until the details are worked out, it's almost impossible to know.

Couldn't agree more. Brexit is barking at the wrong tree.... There was NO need for Brexit. The Polish builder isn't the problem!

Future is impossible to know but signs aren't good, I have friends in various companies, they are already making plans to relocate, and companies hate uncertainty. 

Brexit was an excuse for lower income people, extremists etc to voice their disgust to main Government for decades of UNACCEPTABLE neglect (e.g. ghost towns of the Midlands and the North, i.e. southbound direction of money).

The problem is what these people don't understand is that if the services sectors (finance, London) gets poorer everyone will be affected. If 20000 jobs are lost in the City, things in Middlesbrough will get even worse.

Edited by ukworm
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Our good friend @ukworm who has probably never lived anywhere else in the UK except for London (please correct me if I am wrong, I usually try not to make assumptions).

First of all I did not vote. Although I could have, I chose not to as I was not living in the UK at the time. Personally I believe that you should only be allowed to vote in the country you are payng taxes in. It is the same reason why I disagree with Greeks living here voting during the general elections. If you vote then you should have to live with the immediate consequences (not just because you want to return one day in the future).

Now let us go over your points.

1) What kind of union would try and make an example of a member that has democratically chosen to leave? If it were a peaceful organisation it would merely allow said member to leave without any of this nonsense. Why on Earth is there a bill for leaving? This is why it is a gang. Just like a gangster must pay his way out of the clan, the same applies here.

2) I never said that Greece didn't want to join. The Greek politicians saw the opportunities to line their pockets with EU money. Same with so many farmers and other common folk who cheated the system and got paid. My point was that it was a trap in the first place to have countries with much poorer economies adopt the Euro. Besides, when has Greece ever said no to the EU or US in the past 40 years? The last person to stand up to the bullies had a whole fiasco at the Polytechnic staged by Uncle Sam and then died in prison after refusing to accept his release. By no means should the deaths that day be condoned and I am not saying I agree with everything he stood for - this is another story altogether.

3) As I said, politicians on both sides lie. What is your point?

4) This is all scaremongering. With regards to being prepared, I too have no idea what is round the corner. I think after witnessing the conditions of Greece and having lived in Italy (again, both countries have themselves to blame first), I would rather battle than succumb. You know, die standing instead of living kneeling. Those were the ways of the Ancient Hellenes though, unfortunately they no longer apply to us neo-Greeks.

5) Why would someone who is supposed to be indifferent about the departure of a fellow member offer extension after extension? It isn't because they are kind. We have already established that the EU is a bully. That is exactly what it is. An insecure bully that wants to take over by humiliating other countries like Greece, Italy and Portugal. The minute somebody (UK) stood up to the bully we saw exactly how frail the union is.

How many suicides are there every month in Greece? How many business in Italy were bought up by German giants? How many Spaniards have had to leave their country to find work elsewhere? All so that the Euro can stay afloat and keep the fatcats happy. I couldn't care less about the City (if it is the financial district you are referring to) and as far as I am concerned we should have a national holiday if the banks and other financial institutions decide to close up and move elsewhere. You are talking to someone who did 4 years investment banking and decided to leave after witnessing exactly what goes on behind the scenes. They are one of the reasons why the world is in a crisis.

The North of England has always been neglected, perhaps if we actually do leave (which I doubt will happen) we could finally give some money to those people.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I feel ashamed reading your points. People in London really ought to travel to different parts of the UK. Having lived in London since January I can confirm that it really is a giant bubble.

Now I will move on to your second post.

Nobody said the Polish builder is the problem. Where did you hear this? As I said before, if someone from another country is moving here and finding work without any contacts and with English as a second or third language, while the native is unemployed then it is indeed the native who is the problem. I saw this as an issue of integration. There are many people who choose not to integrate into our Western society. Did you hear about the girls in villages in Germany with blonde hair? The police approached them and told them to dye their hair black as not to arrouse immigrants. How about all the Asian grooming gangs up North? (I once heard an Pakistani man say "Ok, and what about the Catholic Church with the little boys?" and to be fair he has a point - not that two wrongs make a right). Like many others, I am for open borders, but in order for this to happen you need to be on the same level culturally. Women walking around London with only their eyes visible is wrong. They are not objects, they are human beings. This is a cultural issue, gentlemen. If I were to go to Saudi Arabia I would have to respect their laws. You (should) respect the laws of any country when visiting/moving there. Why is it that here is different? Why do we bend over backwards for the minority? These days you are called a racist for flying your St. George's flag.

Space. I don't need to remind you that the UK is an island with limited space. A lot of the green spaces where I grew up (outside of London) have now been bought up and built upon. Soon there won't be any green left. The traffic on the roads every morning is a nightmare where they have built but not readjusted the road. Schools are overflowing and hospitals cannot cope. Indeed there is already a growing population and age of living is increasing but it also doesn't help when people from all corners of the world are also moving here. Again, you probably wouldn't know about this because you live in London!

If it annoys you that much that the majority (ie everyone except those living in the lovely bubble called London) voted out in their country then you can always pick up and leave. This isn't me telling you to F off, I have no right to tell anyone where they should or shouldn't be. This is me telling you that you are not a tree.

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Posted (edited)

Well, stick to that then and don't make assumptions.... Because you will be wrong. 😉

To your points...

1. EU isn't stopping anybody. But before leaving the bill and lots of other things need to be settled (the "deal"). What do you mean why on Earth pay!?!? Because it's an obligation. Think of it like a divorce. Or you just F*** off and leave with no deal and then be ready to face the consequences. And that's why only extremists and nationalists want this option (Mogg and his puppets).

 

2. And your point is? We are talking about UK here. 

 

3. Oh yeah. Referendum was based on lies, false information, populism, buses, boats in the Thames, NHS millions etc. Not experts opinions, not think tanks, not subject matter experts.... What is my point indeed.....

 

4. Battle against who? Σε ποιον virtual πόλεμο πολεμάς ρε φίλε;;;; The fact that the north is F***ed wasn't EUs wrongdoing, it was the UK Gov, you are barking at the wrong tree!!!! 

5. May begged for an extension with tail btw her legs! EU said ok have your  extension, tell us what you want and come back in 6 months. Why are they a bully?

6. Nobody denies London is a bubble but thats nothing to do with EU, AGAIN you are barking at the wrong tree. And why are you ashamed? I am simply stating the facts. Αυτό είναι το κόμπλεξ των leavers. "Εγώ δεν έχω και τίποτα να χασω. Ας φύγουμε". 

 

What I am saying to you and you aren't getting it (not many leavers do as they are blinded by populism): This is NOT SCAREMONGERING. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. READ ON:

Remain is a no risk option, is BAU. Leave is a gamble. If it works out, fine. If it doesn't we will all be F***ed, and more so, the low incomes who overwhelmingly voted Leave. Yes those ones who their own country hasn't been nice to them and yet they fly the flag of that country (the nationalism oxymoron). 

But then the damage will be irreversible. There will be No way back then. 

 

PS I agree about integration. In Rome do as Romans do or go home. But again the people who typically don't integrate are non-EU people. Again you are barking at the wrong tree...

PS2: I am not a tree and I haven't got my eggs in one basket rest assured. Αλλά όταν γίνει αυτο και εγώ φυγω, να δω τι θα κάνουν όλοι αυτοί που ψήφισαν leave και γαμησανε τη χώρα τους με τα χεράκια τους... Εγώ δε θα χαθώ φιλαράκι. Αυτοί θα γαμηθουν 1000 φορές πιο πολύ από μένα.

 

PS3: Doesn't Belgium have issues with space...? Or Holland? Or Austria? Only UK? Again that's the improvement you can drive FROM WITHIN if space is your problem. Come on, is this a serious argument now?

Edited by ukworm
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Και ξαναλέω για να μη πρηζομαστε με details μεγάλε ...

Remain=Bau

 

Leave with a deal: a bastardised solution which nobody wants.

No deal Leave= a gamble, not a calculated risk... Could be better could be worse, could be a total disaster, I am not the Delphi Oracle. Go on, gamble with the country's future. Ιve made my choice and won't leave the country's future to chance.

Άμα διαφωνείς πες.

 

 

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that's what I've been saying all along here....

The UK and Greece can leave any time they want. And while at it, Greece can go back to the drachma tomorrow if desired.

It's turning logic on its head when people argue that they want to leave but also want others to pay them to do so, or let them keep rights & privileges of membership.

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^ Dude, there was a referendum in Greece with regards to accepting the bail out package or not. 63% voted no and the government accepted it anyway. Do you honestly think Greece would leave the EU? Nobody said they wanted to be paid to leave or keep privileges. Do you honestly think other European countries wont want a serperate trade agreement with the UK if it leaves?

@ukworm our opinions differ, let's leave it at that. On paper the EU is haven, but the reality is something completely different. As I said it probably wont even go through anyway. I'm not quite sure how you plan to drive improvement from within if there is a lack of space. I am also not sure why there will be no way back. Surely if we rely solely on the EU for our future then that is a problem. May wants the extension because she doesn't want to leave. Right now in parliament it isn't about the country, it is about everyone keeping their seat. That is what the deal is about. We are not blind.

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Posted (edited)

But you are off topic again here... Who cares what happens in the Commons and what their agenda is... We are talking about the future of this country!

What I am saying to you is that Brexit is a gamble. Why?

Because there are 10 versions different versions of it so no-one actually understands the impact of those, and the ONE and ONLY clean version of it (Leave without a deal) CAN POSSIBLY BE A TOTAL DISASTER (I am NOT saying it WILL BE).

Can ANYBODY BET THEIR HOUSE IT WONT BE A DISASTER??

So here comes my simple question: Who in their right mind who have invested their future in this country would leave everything to chance?

Only the not haves, the nationalists, or the gullible ones... Or those who have nothing to lose! Which one are you?

Excerpts from your previous post. I mean seriously, are those logical arguments of a responsible citizen??? 

1) "I too have no idea what is round the corner" (and yet you still move forward with Brexit!!!!! Let's jump off the cliff without knowing if there's a safety net - yeah, hooray!!!!)

2) "I would rather battle than succumb. You know, die standing instead of living kneeling". This is peace time, WW2 ended in 1945 you know. And if you want to fight, you stay in, you fight them from within: gravitas, diplomacy, negotiation skills, knowledge of EU laws inside out (which clearly UK dont have a clue, that's why EU are now taking them for a ride...)

 

 

PS - No visionary great big project is haven!! You have to try hard to make it work! Nothing happens automagically, that's the reality. 

Edited by ukworm
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3 hours ago, Athens4 said:

Do you honestly think other European countries wont want a serperate trade agreement with the UK if it leaves?

It's actually astonishing how your thinking is so simplistic and incomplete!! Jesus Christ, what happened to common sense?????

All countries will want a separate trading agreement with the UK of course! It's not going to happen overnight, but let's assume it will.

  • Who has a bigger footprint to negotiate a better trade agreement with anybody? EU incl. UK (512 million) or UK on its own (60 million)?
  • Why is Tesco cheaper than your local grocery shop? Because Tesco buys in huge volumes meaning it has more negotiating power!!
  •  

With regards to agreement between EU countries and UK in particular, now goods travel freely. If UK leaves without a deal, they won't. Imported goods will be more expensive. Exported goods also. The definition of lose-lose.

 

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Αθενς πού είσαι παλικάρι μου; Βουβάθηκες; 😎

Περιμένω να μιλήσουμε με επιχειρήματα (και όποιος άλλος θέλει φυσικά)..... Αγγλικά, Ελληνικά ό,τι θες.

Δε με ενδιαφέρουν δηλώσεις του τύπου "δε γονατίζουμε στις ορέξεις του (αόρατου) εχθρού", ή "οι αλήτες του Westminster και το gang των κακών Ευρωπαίων"...

Να κάτσουμε να σκεφτούμε πόσο καλά θα είναι αν η Βρετανία σηκωθεί να φύγει αύριο. Τους πει "άει γ***θείτε ρε Ευρωπαίοι, δε πληρώνω φράγκο, αει σιχτίρ, bye bye".

1. Πας WTO, μπαίνουν tariffs, τα πάντα στο τελωνείο κολλάνε, όλα γίνονται πιο ακριβά (εξήγησα γιατί).

2. Ιrish border μπαίνει. Εκεί προβλέπεται να γίνει της πιπίτσας..... Ασε που αυτό ΔΙΑ ΝΟΜΟΥ ΔΕΝ μπορεί να γίνει, διότι το Good Friday agreement δεν είναι διμερής υπόθεση, αφορά ΟΛΗ την Ευρώπη και η EU πρωτοστάτησε για να επιτευχθεί. ΝΒ - Eίναι τόσο μαλ***ες άσχετοι και ΑΔΙΑΒΑΣΤΟΙ οι Αγγλοι πολιτικοί που όταν λέγανε για Leave είχαν ξεχάσει αυτή τη "μικρή" λεπτομέρεια. Πάνε λοιπόν στον Tusk και λένε "Ηοoray ο λαός μίλησε, φεύγουμε!", Και λέει ο Tusk: "ναι ε? Φεύγετε ε? Ελατε πανάσχετα αγοράκια μου να σας "ξεναγήσω". OOPS!!!!!

3. Εταιρίες φεύγουν. Ανθρωποι χάνουν τη δουλειά τους.

4. Πέφτει η παραγωγή, πέφτει η κατανάλωση, κι άλλοι άνθρωποι χάνουν τη δουλειά τους (αν ο trader στο City δεν αγοράσει το Range Rover, εργάτες στα Midlands απολύονται)=Recession.

 

Αποτέλεσμα: ΖΗΤΩ ΠΟΥ *****ΚΑΜΕ!!!! ΜΠΡΑΒΟ ΜΑΣ! We just shot ourselves in the foot right there!!!!! 

 

Ποιο είναι το counter-argument σε όλα αυτά; Είναι scaremongering και αυτά;;;; Σε πληροφορώ (ΑΠΟ ΜΕΣΑ), ότι το #3, αγαπητό φίλτατο παοκτσάκι μου, είναι 10000% αλήθεια και ΘΑ ΣΥΜΒΕΙ. Oι διεργασίες έχουν αρχίσει. Σου μιλάει κάποιος που κινείται μέσα σ'αυτό το χώρο επί δεκαετίες......

 

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Χάνεις τα λόγια σου, φίλε. Καλό παιδί ο Άθενς, αλλά κι εδώ αναπαράγει ανούσια στερεοτυπικά συνθήματα, όπως βλέπεις δεν υπάρχει common sense ώστε να μπορέσεις να συνεννοηθείς.

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9 minutes ago, Emperor said:

Χάνεις τα λόγια σου, φίλε. Καλό παιδί ο Άθενς, αλλά κι εδώ αναπαράγει ανούσια στερεοτυπικά συνθήματα, όπως βλέπεις δεν υπάρχει common sense ώστε να μπορέσεις να συνεννοηθείς.

Δεν πάει έτσι όμως ρε φίλε.... Εδώ δε μιλάμε για χαβαλέ και για ομάδες (ουσιαστικά παιδιάστικα πράματα, έτσι;)

Εδώ δεν είναι: ΠΑΟΚ: Παλιά Αποχωρητήρια Ορίστε Κατουρήστε. Ή Άρης Αρης κατουρλιάρης (που λέγαμε μικροί).

Εδώ παίζεται το μέλλον μας και το μέλλον των παιδιών μας!!!!

Ο Αθενς (και εγώ και εσύ και ο κάθε Αθενς) ΠΡΕΠΕΙ να κάνουμε μια ΥΠΕΥΘΥΝΗ ώριμη κουβέντα ενηλίκων βασισμένη σε επιχειρήματα και hard facts.

Και αν δεν έχουμε hard facts να κάτσουμε να δούμε το ρίσκο αυτών που ΔΕΝ ΞΕΡΟΥΜΕ.

Και τότε να αποφασίσουμε με βάση την ΨΥΧΡΗ ΛΟΓΙΚΗ.

Ούτε τι Νομιζουμε, ούτε τι πιστεύουμε, ούτε συνθήματα, ούτε κραυγές, ούτε λαικισμός.

Και αν ο Αθενς έχει τρανταχτά επιχειρήματα, ευχαριστώς να με ΔΙΑΛΥΣΕΙ και δεν έχω ΚΑΝΕΝΑ πρόβλημα να παραδεχτώ ότι όταν ψήφισα Remain, έκανα λάθος.

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Οκ, σύμφωνοι, αλλά όπως βλέπεις το παιδί απλά δεν μπορεί.

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Hey hey!  Habla un poco de inglés por favor.

It looks like some people fell for Russia's manipulations. Those that are uneducated or lento en la cabeza.

North of the border from where I am, dumb Americans fell for Trump. The Russians are really screwing up the West.

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Έχουμε και δουλειές να 'ούμε.

Δεν έχω κάποιο σκοπό να σε διαλύσω. Έχεις μια άποψη, άσχετα που δεν συμωνώ μαζί σου. Για να έχεις όμως αυτή την άποψη θα πρέπει να έχεις και τους λόγους σου. Όμως φίλε ukworm, μονο το Λονδίνο ψήφισε να παραμείνει στην ΕΕ. Όλοι οι άλλοι που ψήφισαν για έξοδο είναι άσχετοι δηλαδή; Μόνο το Λοδίνο έχει μορφωμένους και ωραίους;

Φίλε @ukworm βρισκόμαστε σε διαφορετικά στάδια της ζωής. Εσυ φαντάζομαι έχεις οικογένεια, παιδί(α), σπίτι με δάνειο και άλλες τέτοιες υποχρεώσεις. Λογικό να σε φοβίζει μια τέτοια αλλαγή που είναι για όλους κάπως περίπλοκη/δύσκολη. Εγω απ'την άλλη δεν έχω παιδιά, δεν είμαι (ακόμα) παντρεμένος και υποσχέθηκα στον εαυτό μου οτι δεν πρόκειται ποτέ να υποκύψω στις τράπεζες και να πάρω δάνειο για σπίτι. Εαν ήμουνα εγώ στη θέση σου ίσως να πίστευα κι'εγω αυτα που πιστεύεις εσυ. Ίσως και οχι.

Εγώ τα βλέπω αλλιώς. Εγώ βλέπω μια συμμορία (ΕΕ) που προσπαθεί να κατακτήσει την Ευρώπη με κάθε κόστος. Τώρα το τι κρύβεται πίσω απ'ολη αυτη την ιστορία είναι άλλη συζήτηση. Μια συζήτηση που ξέρω εαν θα μπορέσουμε κάνουμε γιατι έχει να κάνει με το τι πιστεύουμε οτι συμβαίνει στον κόσμο. (Masons. I'll leave it there).

Σου'χω πεί ήδη για το City. Ετσι και φύγουν το 70% των τραπεζών (το οτι έχουνε μεταφερθεί άτομα απο Λονδίνο στη Φρανκφούρτη το ξέρω, δεν πρόκειται να εγκαταλείψουν ποτέ ομως το Λονδίνο, ολο και ενα γραφείο θα παραμείνει ανοιχτό) θα πρέπει να στήσουμε ενα πάρτι στο Monument.

Για tariffs που λες, κι'αυτό πολύ δύσκολο. Πχ. τα κρασιά, τις σαμπάνιες και τα τυριά που παίρνουμε απο την Γαλλία θα ανεβούνε στη τιμή λες; Ξέρεις τι χρήμα θα χάσει η Γαλλία εαν γίνει αυτο; Δεν θα το επιτρέψει.

Όσο για την Βόρεια Ιρλανδία, πολλοί λένε εδω και χρόνια να ενωθεί πάλι με την Ιρλανδία. Κι'γω θα υποστήριζα την ένωση. Ίσως τώρα να είναι μια καλή ευκαιρία να γίνει (που δεν θα γίνει αλλα τέλος πάντων).

Κάθε καταστροφή (που δεν θα είναι, αλλα λέμε τώρα) είναι μια ευκαιρία να ξανακτήσεις κατι απο την αρχή (και να το κάνεις ακόμα καλύτερα).

Δεν καταλαβαίνω γιατι ανησυχείς όμως. Το ξέρουμε και οι δυο οτι δεν πρόκειται να γίνει κανένα Brexit. Μας έχουνε ζαλίσει κάθε μέρα επίτεδες μέχρι να σιχαθούμε και να πόυμε "ασ'το ρε παιδιά, φτάνει πια, εντάξει δεν βγαίνουμε, επιτέλους λίγη ησυχία". Οι άλλοι στη Βουλή κοντράρονται για τις θέσεις τους ενώ φτιάχνουν κρυφές συμφωνίες μεταξύ τους ώστε το deal της Μεϊ να μη φίνει δεκτό. Γνωστό το παραμύθι. Γι'αυτό μην αγχώνεσαι αδερφέ. Όλα καλά θα πάνε. Θα παραμείνουμε στην ΕΕ.

Υγ. Ποιά στερεοτυπικά συνθήματα βρε @Emperor ; Εσυ δηλαδή είσαι ευχαριστημένος μ'ολα αυτά που γίνονται στην Ελλάδα; Γουστάρεις που τα παιδιά και τα εγγόνια σου θα πρέπει να φύγουνε για το εξωτερικό ωστε να σωθούν; Γουστάρεις που η χώρα θα ανήκει σε Γερμανούς και τα νησιά μας θα πωλούνται σε ρώσους; Σου αρέσει να βλέπεις φίλους να αφήνουν την οικογένεια και τους φίλους και να φεύγουν για άλλες πολιτείες; Είναι ωραία να βλέπεις φοιτήτριες να πουλάνε τα κορμία τους για ενα γεύμα; Τότε ζήτω η Ευρώπη! Ζήτω η ΕΕ! Success story! Εϊμαστε πρόβατα για σφάξιμο. No wonder society is the way it is. We are all too bothered about staying safe, afraid of change, not offending anyone, not taking any risks and being the good little slaves that we all are. Too busy posting pictures on Instagram about a life that we don't really have and that we don't even like, sharing everything we do on Facebook, craving the attention we so desperately need to validate ourselves while the powers that be are laughing while taking control. So let's all just stay the same and never challenge anything. Let's just succumb without a fight because we're just too busy and scared to lose the few things that we have, which in the near future will not be worth anything anyway.

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Έλα φίλε....

΄΄Οντως η Αγγλία έβγαλε Leave. Αλλά για λάθος λόγους, επειδή η κυβέρνηση έχει ρημάξει το Βορρά και τα Midlands επί 30 χρόνια. Δεν έχει να κάνει όμως με την ΕΕ. Δες τη Γερμανία πόσο είναι de-centralised σα χώρα.... Ήταν επιλογή της Αγγλίας να το γυρίσει σε services να σκοτώσει τη βιομηχανία της και τελικά το χρήμα πήγε Λονδίνο. Και ο κόσμος αποφάσισε να εκδικηθεί για το inequality και ψήφισε Leave. Αλλά όπως είπα barking at the wrong tree. Apples and oranges.

Kαι ΟΚ, δέχομαι την αντίδραση του κόσμου. Αλλά το θέμα έτσι όπως είναι ΄σήμερα τα πράγματα, όταν το 50% του GDP είναι banking, αν το διώξεις, η χώρα θα γίνει Σομαλία. Γιατί η χώρα ΔΕΝ παράγει πλέον τίποτα άλλο. Eίναι σα να πει η Ελλάδα, Τουρισμός τέλος.

ΥΓ1 - Ακόμα και αν δεν αγοράσεις με mortgage, το rent θα πηγαίνει στην πληρωμή του mortgage του ιδιοκτήτη. Άρα....; Kαι εντάξει γιατί έχεις θέμα με τις τράπεζες; Τι σου έκαναν; Aν είσαι sensible και δε κάνεις βλακείες, βρίσκεις πολύ φθηνά interest rates πλέον. 2-3% δεν το λες και τοκογλυφία ρε φίλε.... 

YΓ2 - Τα tariffs θα μπουν φίλε if there is no deal. To VW θα είναι ακριβότερο στην Αγγλία, η Jaguar ακριβότερη στη Γαλλία. If these Co's decide not to pass on the extra cost to the customer in order to boost sales, that will hurt their bottom line, so they will have to cut costs elsewhere (=job losses). If they pass on extra cost to customers cars become more expensive, they sell less, less profit, job losses again. Either way, as I say, lose - lose.....

ΥΓ3 - Σκωτία έβγαλε Remain γιατί σιχαίνεται την Αγγλία. Β. Ιρλανδία έβγαλε Remain γιατί οι protestants είναι περισσότεροι και σιχαίνονται τους Άγγλους. Η Ουαλία έβγαλε Leave και μετά κλαιγόταν όταν κατάλαβε ότι τα EU funds θα κοπούν (παίρνουν πολλά αυτοί). Υπάρχουν jokes για τους Ουαλούς. Αρχίζω να πιστεύω ότι ευσταθούν!

 

@Athens4  φίλε αυτό που περιγράφεις για την Ελλάδα στο @Emperor υπάρχει σοβαρή περίπτωση να συμβεί στην Αγγλία αν πάμε σε Νο Deal...

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What you’re saying is that the happiness and prosperity of our lives depend entirely on the EU. I refuse to even entertain this idea as I completely disagree with it. You are also accepting just what the gang wants you to think - that you are nothing without it.

As I said, it’s a great idea on paper but a disaster in reality.

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Ποιο disaster ρε φίλε! Παρά τα προβλήματα της, η Ευρώπη παραμένει παγκοσμίως ιδανικός τόπος, στους περισσότερους τομείς, πχ κοινωνική πρόνοια, δημοκρατία, προστασία περιβάλλοντος, ευνομία, ανθρώπινα δικαιώματα, κλπ. 

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Δεν ξέρω για ποιά Ευρώπη μιλάς (ίσως σε ενα παράλληλο σύμπαν). Σίγουρα η Ευρώπη στην οποία ζούμε δεν έχει αυτα τα χαρακτηριστικά όμως. Εκτός κι'αν συγκρίνεις με Αραβίες και Ασίες, τότε εδω είναι σίγουρα καλύτερα. Βέβαια να προσφέρεις καλύτερο επίπεδο ζωής απο κατι Κίνες, Ιράν κλπ δεν είναι και τίποτα σπουδαίο.

Δεν μου απάντησες για το μέλλον των παιδιών σου και την τωρινή κατάσταση στην Ελλάδα.

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Με τι να συγκρίνω ρε φίλε; Σε όλα αυτά που έγραψα παραπάνω (κοινωνική πρόνοια, δημοκρατία, προστασία περιβάλλοντος, ευνομία, ανθρώπινα δικαιώματα, ασφάλεια, κλπ.) ποια περιοχή του κόσμου είναι καλύτερη από την Ευρώπη; Η Αφρική; Η Ρωσία; Η Ασία; Η Λατινική Αμερική; Οι ΗΠΑ; Η Μέση Ανατολή; Μην το ψάχνεις, ακριβώς όπως σου το έγραψα είναι: παρά τα προβλήματα, η Ευρώπη παραμένει η περιοχή με το καλύτερο βιοτικό επίπεδο.

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