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Manolara

Greek managers

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Portugal have 3 decent, trophy winning, managers with Mourinho leading the pack. 
Italians have multiple with Ancelotti leading the pack. 
The Scots had multiple over the years. 
Same with the Spanish. 
Hell even Romania, Austria, Belgium, Yugoslavia, and Hungary have had European Cup winning managers. But Greece? Our best managers have been foreign. The most successful manager in the Greek League is Dusan Bajevic. The most successful for the National Team is Otto Rehhagel, followed by Santos. 
Alefantos spent 35 years in management and won 1 cup in Cyprus. 

 

My theory is that no one cares about football in Greece, which is why there are no good managers. The club presidents just buy whatever they need which leaves no room for development or long term goals and plans. Even though teams have nothing to lose, the domination of olympiakos just saps everything out of the league, and a complacent football body sits idly by. 
If Aris or Ergotelis have a decent player or manager, Olympiakos will get them and discard them after a while. Their youth system seems to be good but while the German, Spanish, British, French players keep improving, the Greeks stagnate in a s%$#! league not getting the development, they need, to be as good as their foreign counterparts. 
Lax vision, lax goals, lax competition, lax governing body, equals lax players and managers. 

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I think Greece has some talented managers, but very few - and the the fact that Greek managers are famously badly traveled - means that as a product, they are not very desirable. 

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I also think its very shallow to implicate the ills of greek football with the success of olympiakos over the last 10 years...

 

we do not have football schooling or culture..

 

you mention Yugoslavia and Hungary and Romania...look how far ahead they were from us 40-70 years ago?  it all starts somewhere...

 

not from Vlaxodimos or Bouchalakis not being able to cement a spot in osfp...

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With the clown car policy for managers at the top 4 teams, there's no chance Greek managers will ever get enough time to experiment and grow. Ferguson was given 5 years at United. At the time no one knew he would become that good, but given the time he improved himself. 

The only decent Greek manager I can think of is Donis, and he was barely given any time at Aek, Paok, At Larissa he won the cup, at Atromitos he reached the cup final two years in a row. 


"We do not have football schooling or culture.." is a shallow excuse. The German FA thought the same back in 2000 after their national team drew 1-1 with Romania, lost 1-0 to England and 3-0 to Portugal in Euro 2000. The atmosphere at the time was "we depend on Ballack". Everyone thought that the 2002 World Cup was an indicator there where no problems but then in Euro 2004 they again got kicked out from the groups by Latvia, Netherlands and Czech Republic. 
By 1998-2002 the moves where in place to improve German football and look at them since. Producing quality players, the German national team in the finals of Euro 2008, Semi finals of 2012, semi finals of 2006 world cup, semi finals of 2010, winners in 2014, strong domestic competition, Champions League finalists and winners, and many good German coaches. 
The Greek FA is doing sweet fa. 

Edited by Jakub Blaszczykowski

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Yeah but why can we do well in basket? That's what I don't get. Lot's of money is put in basket but both Pao+Oly are strong in Euroleague, AEK+PAOK+Aris and others have done well in Europe aswell, and our NT has been doing well. 

I'd accept Greece being s%$#! at soccer, if they were just s%$#! overall, but it's not the case. The Greek FA have gone through different presidents and members but it's the same shiet? No sense of urgency, no sense of rejuvenation, just business as usual. They wasted 1.5 mil euro on Ranieri. How incompetent can you get without anyone still asking for mass changes? 
Where did the 20-30mil from Euro04 go? 

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please don't compare:

 

Greek football to German football.......Germany had one poor tournament...they had a won a euro and a WC in the previous decade..as well as a WC runners up....2 years prior to 2004..

 

 

and don't compare European basketball to European football...the two are on different planets....from the $$$$$ required to compete...to the number of countries that play it at a high level..

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Two poor tournaments, no quality in their national team, poor friendly results, and according to Germans themselves, played boring football. They changed their entire football philosophy from 1-0 hoofballs and only developing world class goalkeepers to playing attacking football and creating world class players. 

Even in their 2002 final, if you disregard the 8-0 thumping of Saudi Arabia, they could barely score more than 1 goal against the likes of Ireland, Paraguay, U.S and South Korea. 

I don't see why the comparison shouldn't be made when it wasn't luck or waiting for a golden generation to emerge that made Germany into the superpower they are today, but structural reforms to catch up and even surpass their competitors with forward thinking governing bodies when most people saw no problem with German football at the time. 

Especially now with the complete humiliation in the Euro 2016 qualifiers, our poor European performances, the decay of the domestic league, and lack of talent. 

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Two poor tournaments, no quality in their national team, poor friendly results, and according to Germans themselves, played boring football. They changed their entire football philosophy from 1-0 hoofballs and only developing world class goalkeepers to playing attacking football and creating world class players. 

Even in their 2002 final, if you disregard the 8-0 thumping of Saudi Arabia, they could barely score more than 1 goal against the likes of Ireland, Paraguay, U.S and South Korea. 

I don't see why the comparison shouldn't be made when it wasn't luck or waiting for a golden generation to emerge that made Germany into the superpower they are today, but structural reforms to catch up and even surpass their competitors with forward thinking governing bodies when most people saw no problem with German football at the time. 

Especially now with the complete humiliation in the Euro 2016 qualifiers, our poor European performances, the decay of the domestic league, and lack of talent. 

 

 

to compare Greece/Germany

 

is like comparing

 

Bulgaria/Italy

 

Hungary/France

 

Spain/Austria

 

etc etc.......you now get how ridiculous these comparisons are?

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I don't understand your problem with comparisons. I explained to you why and how Germany improved their quality of football and it's like you think it's inconceivable for Greece to do the same, yet don't offer any other explanation but "don't compare the two". 

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Germany's quality of football did not improve as simply in a few years with a few quick implementations...

 

they had extremely strong basis and football infrastructure......

 

they have a massive sporting culture and football pedigree going back 100 years...

 

we lack the know how and basic understanding.... 

 

population , mentality go along way...

 

you also pick Germany's 'low point' as being around the era 2000-2004.....they made a WC Final in that period had a won a Euro Final a few years earlier and a WC 10 years earlier....they still had very strong club teams....it is hardly a LOW period by anyone else standards...

 

you describe it as 'structural reform' and 'forward thinking' then you put Greece in the same sentence?

 

I would be interested in how Portugal have been doing things historically? and Belgium recently?  to try and learn something and improve our own structures..

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Well I can tell you that Germany used to have fathers who trained at local clubs, and bigger towns and cities had football academies that would occasionally train players. They got to this conclusion based on the fact that their youth teams weren't winning as many titles as they liked and where second fiddle to French, Spanish, Italian and English national teams. 
The FA decided that in order to improve the scouting system and the quality of players, by teaching them when they where younger, they offered incentives for clubs (basically forced them) to improve their youth set ups and academies, enforced coaching standards and provided coaching schools, improved the reach of football academies by increasing funding to grassroots clubs that extended and improved the football network. 

When Jurgen Klinsmann came to Germany he revolutionised the way the National team trained, ate, and played football. He brought in sports scientists, nutritionists, tacticians and cleaned all the dead weight. German clubs also took this on board. He also had more players to chose from thanks to the improvements of the FA in early 2000. Players like Toni Kroos who lived in a small town wouldn't have had the chance if it weren't for those improvements. 

Guardiola made things even more strict at Bayern with small changes that had massive impacts. He fired the whole medical staff because they where s%$#!. In pre-season, the club would have a table full of pastries and sweets in their hotel which he quickly got rid of. 
At Barcelona all the players where on strict diets from nutritionists that catered to each individual player. This allowed them to play 3 games a week at high intensity. It also allowed them to recover better which is why he thought the Bayern medical staff was s%$#!. At Barcelona his players would return to play much quicker than the players at Bayern. 


You really think it's a stretch for Greece to do something similar? To incentivise clubs to spend money on sports scientists, nutritionists, instead of $500,000 on some 25yo Latino or African or Scandinavian player? To enforce minimum standards in coaching? To improve grassroots football so youngsters can learn how to pass, cross, tackle, position, move, before they turn 21? For coaches to learn how to teach these concepts and provide incentives to constantly learn and improve themselves? 

I'm not asking to go toe to toe with Germany, I'm asking to set higher standards than we currently have to reach our full potential. Standards that big footballing nations like Germany, Spain, England, Italy, France have set, that are realistic in implementation. Something as simple as long term goals, instead of wasting time and money on garbage and opadiliki. 

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Referring to Spain, they also had football pedigree. At the national level it took them 100 years and an old school manager in Del Bosque to win the world cup because of the politics. 

England have the media which just adds extreme stress and expectation on the team. Ferguson said the England job is like a death sentence, or words to that extent because of the media and expectation. 

Germany also had the media but Klinsmann+Low dealt with them. They didn't like the fact that Klinsmann shook up the establishment and that he was changing things. They called him the Californian because he would fly back there instead of stay in Germany. After decent showings in the Euro's and World Cup they eventually quietened down. Low created a good atmosphere within the group which led to this infamous interview with Mertesacker after their perceivably poor game against Algeria in the World Cup: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoO5ECcsdoE

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yes its a stretch to ask greece to do anything like that....

 

I want to know why we still have not redeveloped Elliniko ? as a nation we don't understand the basics...

 

Spain, England etc have been at a very high level for a long time....

 

their lack of trophies over 100 years has more to do with 'losing out on details' in SF, QF, Finals..

 

WC, Euro comes around every 4 years...very easy to blow a game ...

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