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Reaper

Turkish Violations

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Looks like the Turkish Navy entered the Andros sea area illegally and used the area as a firing range. 

 

Nothing like booking a holiday in greece to see muslim military vessels firing guns right in front of your beach.  :la:

 

Anyone who buys a holiday home anywhere in the Aegean needs balls of steel.. no wonder everyone buys in Spain and France.

 

n-DEFAULT-large570.jpg

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.gr/2015/06/11/pedio-volhs-androu_n_7559394.html

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The only immediate threat to Greece is Turkey. NATO will never aid Greece in any way if Turkey decides to push up the heat. NATO is a club that so far is yet to benefit Greece security wise.

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Turkey is in close check by the west, and Greece is guaranteed that Turkey will not invade....

 

Turkey is not in close check by Europe. I am European. I can tell you this is not the case. The EU fears Turkey. It has the second largest army in NATO and Europe is so afraid of Turkey, it wont even recognise the Armenian genocide in case it annoys Turkey. The EU is aware that many ISIS fighters were trained in Turkey and use Turkey as a safe haven. The EU however refused to make a statement on the problem as it was afraid of Turkey. 

 

Turkey is not kept in check by anyone. 

 

There is no guarantee for Greece should Turkey invade an uninhabited island for example. Turkey violates Greek air and sea borders because it knows Greece has no friends. There is no EU army. Turkey is so powerful it stopped Greece expanding its sea borders under threat of war and Greece obeyed. To put it into context - Turkey is so powerful that even if Greece expands its sea borders to the legal limit in Corfu, Turkey has it written into its Constitution that that is a causa belli.  Greece fears Turkey and like a good Ottoman subject, respects their bullying. The most Greece ever did was threaten to complain to the EU. Everyone just laughed at Greece after Karamanlis made that threat.

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....... allowed many of our farmers to buy porsche cayennes.

 

everything trickles right back to Merkel........

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nato is not an 11 year old child to be tricked by greece into fighting it's regional rivalries against turkey. the 6 mile x 10 mile issue is a legit bone of contention 

 

Every country on earth has rights to make their sea borders 12 nautical miles. Turkey itself has 12 mile borders on the southern and northern coasts.

 

Turkey however says that if Greece increases its borders from 6 miles to just 10 miles sea borders - even in the Ionian - no where near Turkey - Turkey will see this a Causa Belli and will not need an act in Parliament to attack Greece.

 

That is insane. That is the reason that despite having 10,000s of square miles of empty ocean for Turkish armed vessels to fire shells into, Turkey chooses ranges next to Andros and sails its war vessels just off Attica. This is to intimidate Greece. Greece, occasionally complains to the EU where it is laughed at. Sometimes Greece has dogfights with Turkish war planes within the Greek territory. This is a source of great pride for many American/Australian Greek patriots who think the Turks leave the disputed areas when our planes buzz the enemy. In fact the Turkish planes leave when they are low on fuel.. 

 

Turkey is right to bully Greece because Greece is a victim. If Greece was serious about its borders, Turkey would have real problems. However Turkey knows Greece is not a serious country and therefore they are doing the correct thing.

 

Greece should increase its borders to 12 nautical miles, except where it is close to Turkey, there they can be split down the middle. The reason it doesn't is the same reason Greece got into the crisis - terminal weakness - mentally, physically and publicly.

 

It is critical everyone reads this article before commenting to save time:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_dispute

Edited by Reaper

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Reaper I absolutely have no fear of Turkey....Turkey is the most hated country in the world, and will never be aloud to enter into Greece....Also becoming Israel's number one enemy!!! Remember the most hated country!!!

Think about it even the middle East hates the turks!!!

The most likely scenario is Turkey will end up in a civil war....The curds will start a uprising....And the Turkish boarders will need to be defended, because of the amount of countries against them....You guys are going way over the top with this!!!

.

 

You may have no fear of Turkey, but that has nothing to do with Greece - who is to afraid to increase its sea borders from 6 nautical miles because of the Turkish Causa Belli.

 

Turkey is not the most hated country in the world. In fact it is fairly popular.  Greeks watch soaps from Turkey daily. 

 

You need to listen to the EU parliament sometimes. It is on youtube if you can't watch it live. Turkey is hugely respected in the EU. Far more than Greece. 

Edited by Reaper

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I wouldn't know which side I'd rather Greece take in that Israel vs Turkey rivalry, both evil nations.

 

Since Turkey has now started bombing ISIS in Syria and letting USA land its planes there too, that may improve Turkey's relations with the USA and NATO.

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All this talk about Turkey and their disputed love/hate from the world reminded me of a an apocryphal quote attributed to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov where to a question from a reporter asking when Ukraine will join the EU he responded "Immediately after Turkey joins the EU." "So when is Turkey joining?" Was the logical followup question. "Never" replied Lavrov, firmly.

Turkey is a Islamo-facist state that doesn't even pretend to being the Wests friend any more.

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Turkey's main enemies in the Middle East are the Shia's and the Kurds. Turkey also bombed Kurdish military yesterday as well as ISIS, so they're basically bombing the guys who are fighting against ISIS too. Turkey may have just been using all this as a smokescreen to hit the Kurds in Syria, they have also been arresting a lot of PKK member in Turkey since ISIS set of that bomb in Turkey.

 

But Turkey will still be friends with the other Sunni states like Saudi Arabia (who is also allied to USA) and they would need a powerful ally like Turkey to back them up if they ever went to war with Iran. Then you have the other Turkic states like Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, who supposedly have some sort of ethnic connection to the Turks, but ironically most Turks aren't actually as ethnically Turkic as they'd like to think. Pakistan, along with Turkey and Saudi Arabia is another powerful Sunni country, but they are probably too worried about India to ever help Turkey.

 

You're right jvc there are a lot of Islamic extremists in Turkey, the right-wing parties there sympathise with ISIS and that includes Erdogan's AK party. So I can't see Turkey going all out vs ISIS (unless ISIS makes a mistake and provokes Turkey again) and I definitely can't see the Turks helping the Kurds. Hopefully the Kurds will be able to push back ISIS in Syria and Iraq (with the help of the Shia's there) and also grow stronger inside Turkey too.

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The Kurds have a big big territory in Syria at the moment. Erdogan doesnt want that. It can set off all kind of things that could be dangerous since there are 20-25 mil kurds living in Turkey. Now they are not going after them yet, but nobody prevents them from bombing PKK because they are still seen as a terrorist organisation. I can't understand why Europe, and certainly USA let's him do this. They know he is not bombing ISIS and only the kurds, who are America's boots in the ground. It's a big dirty political game.

 

Also this is the way he can win the elections without that Kurdish party getting 13% of the votes like last time. Erdogan is a very dirty boy. He tries to hide the failing economy of the last 2 years by attacking arch enemies. It's also smart in a way. I can't see why all the turks are so happy with him. He is a dictator cutting off every internet site when ever he wants.

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Turkey is a Islamo-facist state that doesn't even pretend to being the Wests friend any more.

 

But after they gave an airport to the Americans they are best friends again since a week or so. America is betraying their allies (Kurds) faster then we change our underwear.

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Also this is the way he can win the elections without that Kurdish party getting 13% of the votes like last time. Erdogan is a very dirty boy. He tries to hide the failing economy of the last 2 years by attacking arch enemies. It's also smart in a way. I can't see why all the turks are so happy with him. He is a dictator cutting off every internet site when ever he wants.

 

Yeah I often wonder how that Erdogan muppet gets elected. I think its because so many Turks are conservative/extremist muslims who live in their little village and are deluded by Turkish nationalism.

 

There worried about Kurds because they are the only large minority group that the Turks weren't able to get rid of or assimilate. The Kurds are probably the biggest threat to Turkey's fabricated nation.

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The Kurds conqured so much land in north Syria that turkey is afraid. It could set off many things in Turkey with 20 mil kurds living there. Now they attack the PKK because they cant attack the US backed YPG in Syria. I still dont understand how you can take so much s%$#! from Turkish government if you are with 20 milion in that country. Only a few thousand fight for the PKK. They should be much stronger.

 

Anyway we symphatize with the kurds because they are the enemy of our enemy, but let's not forget one time they were the best friends of the turks and were helping them against us Greeks.

Edited by Doxa

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^^That's what I posted many times before Doxa....The Turkey fascist pigs, are one of the most hated countries in the world...For me it's better to sit back, take some s%$#!, and let the stupidest people in the world dig their own grave. If they invaded Greece....They would get their ass handed to them...Just the 20 million Kurds would be to much for them to handle....They have a strong military don't get me wrong, but not strong enough to defeat all its enemies....Plus the Greek military has remained in top shape over the crisis.

 

I love how you keep saying the opposite of the truth.

The Greek military is s%$#!. No money for maintance of planes and tanks. No money for Gas. No money for new weapons.

I wish we was more like Russia. They re-organized their budget but became stronger.

 

Turkey has not that many enemies. Their biggest friend is YOU (America). America does everything for them for years now just to get their airspace and airfields. They will always pick Turkey's side over Greece and over Kurds and many other countries.

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Youre such an annoying american red neck. I never said we need Russia. Your dick gets so hard when you read the word Russia and you head starts spinning around with all these communist/kapitalist thougts. Do you still live in 1970?

 

That site is such bullshit. If you stil have Greek family or relatives in Greece that didnt cut you off go and ask them how the army is at the moment?

Planes dont get in the air, they are outdated big time. No money for repairs or updates. No money for petrol. Tanks are not up to date. We can have a 1000 tanks but they are not ready for use.  Wages went in half. Another budgetcut of 400 mil because of Europe in the next years.

 

The problem with you is, ive said it many times. You are an American. You don't know whats going on in Greece. You base everything on website's that lie and write what they want.

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If information about the Greek army that's based on my own experience and that of my friends and family who LIVE in Greece is considered kafenio talk, then what do you consider an American who doesnt live in Greece who doesnt even come for holidays who has no sense of reality but gets his opinion from website's that write what ever they want??

 

hahahaha youre a disgrace and stop calling yourself greek? And please answer my question above directly and dont duck it. we know youre good at it.

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Did you even go to the army? please tell the truth? im sure you didnt. Dont lie about it.

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So you didnt go eh?

Have you actually ever been to Greece? I guess I also know the answer to that.

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If ISIS is defeated Kurds could get their own state in Northern Iraq. They were due to have a referendum on independence, but that got put back because of the war. Kurds also now control large amounts of the Syria-Turkey boarder, Turkey is already worried about that.

 

But no-one ever suggested the Kurds could take on Turkey. Kurds forming their own state is not impossible however, those sort of independence movements work occasionally. We should not be foolish to think that an independent Kurdish state (including a part of Turkey) would benefit Greece, they have never helped us in the past and they are still Muslims, like the Turks. But I'd still like to see that happen because its ridiculous that an ethnic group of 30m does not have their own state and it would be great to see Turkey get a bit smaller.

 

For me Turkey's only enemy capable of taking them on is Iran, who are supporting the opposite sides in the Syrian and Yemen wars now. That depends on if Iran ever goes to war with the Saudi's. And Iran is aligned with Russia so...

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It's true we as Greeks shouldnt give a F*** about whats happening over there. They were all best friends a long time ago and a mutual enemy to Greece. The Kurds did horrible things to us togehter with the Turks.

 

Anyway like I said we cheer for the Kurds because they are the enemy of our biggest enemy. It's sad to see they got betrayed by the USA for an airfield. But that's what we know, they betray anybody when it's in their own interest. They are Turkey's best friend for over more then 20 years.

 

It is true that if you look at the map, Turkey should be worried about the Kurds. If someday the war is over in Syria and Irak and the Kurds still have those big pieces of land in Syria that are connected to the land they have in Irak, you can figure out yourself what they can make of that if they put it togheter someday.

 

Russia won't lift a finger for any (muslim) country. They are not like the US. But Putin is more loyal. Untill now he doesnt give a F*** omws about these wars and neither should we.

Iran wont go to war by the way. They had a worse ecnomy then Greece. Now that the sanctions are lifted they can get better, but they have  no money for a war, certainly not with rich countries like Saudi Arabia,who have the USA as their biggest friend.

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Shortly before calling a NATO meeting under the pretense of concerns over its security, Turkey launched a bombing campaign across the border into Syria allegedly against the ISIS forces that it has supported, trained, and facilitated since the beginning of the Syrian crisis. 

Very soon after the bombing campaign was launched there came the announcement that Turkey and the United States had agreed to implement an ?ISIL Free Zone? otherwise known as a ?No Fly Zone? in northern Syria. 

Prior to the formal announcement of the ?ISIL-Free/No-Fly Zone,? it was known that Turkey had launched a simultaneous attack on Kurdish targets in Iraq. After the announcement, these attacks on Kurdish targets intensified to greatly overshadow anything purporting to be an attack on ISIS. 

Thus, as Turkey whines about the threat ISIS poses to its security, fresh on the heels of a dubious ISIS bombing of a political demonstration, Turkey has demonstrated that the real targets of its bombing campaign is not ISIS at all, it is the Kurds. 

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/turkeys-war-on-kurds-isis-air-force.html

 

Interesting read for anyone interested.

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Looks like Erdogan's right-wing Islamic AKP party is to win a majority in today's Turkish elections. Obviously this means the Sultan can tighten his grip on the already autocratic Turkey.

 

We will have to wait and see how the situation with the Kurds (in both Turkey and Syria) and Islamic State plays out now. Things are getting a lot more complicated there anyway now that Russia got involved and it is not clear what Turkey or the US want to do.

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NEWS 

01.12.2015

Turkish jets violate Greek air space

  • f16_jet_web-thumb-large.jpg

 

TAGS:DiplomacyDefense

Six Turkish F-16 fighter jets violated Greek air space over the Aegean Sea on Tuesday, the National Defense General Staff (GEETHA) said in a statement.

According to GEETHA, a formation of six aircraft entered the Athens Information Region between Lesvos and Chios at 3.01 p.m. before splitting into two groups.

Four jets flew over the island of Fourni between Samos and Chios at 3.25 p.m. while the other two flew over Makronisi and Anthropofagoi islets before flying over Agathonisi.

The Turkish jets were chased off by Greek aircraft.

The violations took place in the wake of a minor diplomatic spat between the two Aegean neighbors after a message on Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras?s account on Monday accused Turkish jets of repeatedly violating Greek air space.

?Fortunately our pilots are not as mercurial as yours [were] against the Russians,? Tsipras told his Turkish counterpart Ahmet Davutoglu in one of four tweets that were later erased in reference to Turkey?s shooting down of a Russian fighter jet flying in its national air space last week.

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so you want GREECE to be like SERBIA......Seems we are itching towards 'our dream' of becoming the renegades of Europe..

 

Cuba of the Balkans a place where all the Che Guevara lovers and pony tails can gather and discuss the ills of the west..

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