PAE PAOK General News (2017-2018)

[Klaous]

35 minutes ago, Alphonse said:

You make good points Klaus, I just wonder is the PAOK lawyers did a good enough job with some of the points and how they handled it. I also wonder how much accountability is being put on Aretopoulos for the mess he has created.

I personally feel the PAOK lawyers needed to approach the 15 minutes OSFP denied anyone seen Gracia smarter than just claiming they botched the injury as that's where the judge did not take it as serious due to that.

Anyways, we will find out some time today what happens

Thank you for understanding my points. If AEK wins the championship, so be it. But regardless of that, this punishment is ridiculous and Olympiakos should definetely not get away with this. 

In regards to the 15 minutes in which Garcia was not seen by the doctor... well, the lawyers pointed that out, but out of all the answers and questions the judge could have responded with, she only answered in disbelief saying she did not expect that to hear. I mean, c'mon, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but a neutral judge would have at least to consider this and question what the hell Olympiakos did in that time in the changing rooms. An actual injured person would need medical attention right now, not after waiting 15 minutes in pain because his own team denied the doctor the entry. But the judge did not care about this at all, it seems. Only in Greece things like that are possible. And only in Greece a judge won't question this and instead punish the others without hesitation. This is the actual problem in all of this. Olympiakos being able to do whatever they want. Punish us? Well, then punish them too! 

[Blackhawk]

Well Klaus it's exactly this type of mentality and the selective enforcement of the rules that has driven the Greek football and the country in general to this sad state.

[Klaous]

14 hours ago, Alphonse said:

Blackhawk, can I ask a dumb question, does all this take place at the same court room & judge? Or they treated by different judges? In case you know 

The decision will be taken in a different court. I am not sure about the decision making process there but if I am not mistaken we will face several judges this time, not just one. The judge from the last time will not take part in this. Those are the names of all possible judges: Δημήτρης Σκουτέρης, Βλάχος Φώτης, Γεωργουλιά Κωνσταντίνα, Δεμέστιχας Κωνσταντίνος, Κουμούτσου Ευδοκία.

Especially Skouteris has an interesting past... http://www.sdna.gr/podosfairo/dikastikes-apofaseis/article/351808/skandala-prokliseis-kai-sti-mesi-o-skoyteris-tis http://www.metrosport.gr/article/pote-ke-giati-ekviasan-ton-dikasti-pou-tha-krini-tin-efesi

Anyway, PAOK's main argument will be that since the game never started, PAOK cannot be punished for game suspension, meaning in other words that we cannot be punished with a point deduction, only with a monetary fine.

Η στρατηγική της ΠΑΕ ΠΑΟΚ, σ’ αυτή τη διαδικασία θα στοχεύσει κυρίως στο νομικό κομμάτι της υπόθεσης. Στο να αναδείξει ότι δεν γίνεται η μη διεξαγωγή να τιμωρείται το ίδιο με την διακοπή ενός αγώνα. http://www.metrosport.gr/article/apetisi-gia-kathari-ekdikasi

 

According to article 21 paragraph 3 of the  ΚΑΠ (page 55-56) cases in which the game has not even started yet are not mentioned. This is indeed a loophole, since the law is obiously not clear on that. Only the following cases are actually mentioned by the law: "Αγώνας που δεν τελέστηκε ή που δεν έληξε με υπαιτιότητα της μιας εκ των δύο ομάδων" 

However, one could argue that since the match could not start, it could not end as well. Therefore, I see our chances at 50/50 (yes, I am optimistic) that the point deduction will be dropped. But it can go either way.

[Nea Bafra]

1 hour ago, Klaous said:

However, one could argue that since the match could not start, it could not end as well. Therefore, I see our chances at 50/50 (yes, I am optimistic) that the point deduction will be dropped. But it can go either way.

Don't be optimistic Klaus jvc and Alphonse don't like that 

[paokarag4]

I'd be shocked if we get our points back 
 

I'd also be surprised if olympiako get theirs back as well. My guess, and the most likely scenario is all punishments stand. We'll be 5 points behind AEK and Olympiakos will be 2 points behind us 

[DunfermlineAthleticPAOK]

1 hour ago, jvc said:

I don't see any positives if Olympiakos or PAOK win the championship.  In my opinion AEK deserves it....they have their s%$#! together.   Your fans and Olympiakos can't be rewarded....we're looking for a brighter future....can't reward hooligans for their behavior.

Possibly the most ridiculous thing written so far.

So league championships should not be won on sporting merit but on which club's fans behave the best? Why not look at arrests per game and then award points accordingly?

PAOK have the best starting 11, the best squad, we have scored the most goals, we have won the most games and collected the most points... and on sporting merit are (should be) top of the league.

Although we will never know know, most peoples honest assumption would be that we would have destroyed Olympiacos to go even further clear. If that had happened, then i suspect that the disaster in Tripoli would have never taken place.

To consider all of that and then say AEK deserve to win as they haven't had major controversy surrounding their fans is frankly mental. It just reinforces the perception (reality?) that the the 'big' 3 in Athens/Piraeus will always stick together and be against us no matter what. 

[Klaous]

1 hour ago, jvc said:

I don't see any positives if Olympiakos or PAOK win the championship.  In my opinion AEK deserves it....they have their s%$#! together.   Your fans and Olympiakos can't be rewarded....we're looking for a brighter future....can't reward hooligans for their behavior.

Yes, those AEKtzides are really angels, aren't they?

Don't you tell me that AEK has no Hooligans. Greece is full of imbeciles, AEK is no exception to that.

Based on your logic clubs like Xanthi should win the championship since the bigger clubs all have idiots in their stands. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Klaous

[Klaous]

1 minute ago, jvc said:

AEK is a better team.

They can prove that on Sunday. 

[Klaous]

"Έκτος λόγος η εσφαλμένη κρίση ως προς τη μη νόμιμη παρουσία Γκαρσία στον αγωνιστικό χώρο. Το γεγονός ότι 75 λεπτά πριν από την έναρξη του αγώνα δόθηκαν τα ονόματα, αλλά 60 λεπτά πριν δόθηκε η αντικατάσταση χωρίς καμία δικαιολόγηση (τραυματισμός κτλ.). Έρχεται ο Αρετόπουλος στην επιστολή του και φέρνει καινούριο ισχυρισμό σε αντίθεση με όσα αναφέρει ο παρατηρητής"

Interesting... so we still argue that Garcia was not an official and (according to the PAOK lawyer at least) the match observer backs this up. If the judge is convinced by our evidence it would be a huge blow to Aretopoulos and his red friends. 

[Dutch Eagle]

1 hour ago, jvc said:

I don't see any positives if Olympiakos or PAOK win the championship.  In my opinion AEK deserves it....they have their s%$#! together.   Your fans and Olympiakos can't be rewarded....we're looking for a brighter future....can't reward hooligans for their behavior.

Hell, we deserve it. I follow DAPAOK’s arguments. All are valid. And yes there are some R-hidia that screw it up for the 99.5% good fans. Every team has those morrons but most fans are like me (just a guy who pays his taxes, no criminal record, good job who supports his club and visit Toumba if opportunity knocks with his wife and kids). 

The AEK fans are saints. Sure. Remember Volos. 

If we follow your arguments Levadiakos or Lamia (Just for you Lamiara Ole) might end up as the new champion in April or May.

We did a good job by being the Police ourselves, but in the end no one can stop that one kathiki that starts throwing things. Not the club, not the other fans. Nobody.

We should be punished, though. As someone of our club was wrong. That fine should be some euro’s. Not to SL/EPO, but to some foundation fighting cancer. SL/EPO should not be rewarded. The match was not effected and could easily be started. With or without that coach.

[Klaous]

"Πρόεδρος (Δημήτρης Σκουτέρης): θα δούμε το οπτικοακουστικό υλικό από τη στιγμή που δεν καλέσαμε μάρτυρες τον κ. Αρετόπουλο, δεν ξέρω αν θα έκανε την τιμή να έρθει, γιατί ήθελα να τον ρωτήσω για το περίφημο σκούτερ στην κερκίδα..."

Συνεχίζει ο πρόεδρος: Είναι τόσο αστείος ο πειθαρχικός κώδικας (αν τραυματιστεί, αν δεν.... κ.ο.κ.) που πάμε σε αναλογικές ερμηνείες, δηλαδή αν πεθάνει κάποιος τι θα γίνει, τι θα ισχύει;

The reaction from the judge is unbelievable. 

[Blackhawk]

22 hours ago, Alphonse said:

Blackhawk, can I ask a dumb question, does all this take place at the same court room & judge? Or they treated by different judges? In case you know 

No, it's not the same court room or judges. The appeal is heard by the EPO court and judges. The original trial was by the Superleague Disciplinary Committee. 

I believe there is an additional appeal that can be filed, and I am pretty sure PAOK or Olympiakos will take it to that point depending on the outcome of the current appeal.

[pash]

As a follow up - is that other appeal, to the EPO as well? I thought you had said before that there was still another step between here and CAS, though I'm not sure how much higher up we can go than EPO, domestically.

[Blackhawk]

There is something called ΔΙΑΙΤΗΤΙΚΟ  ΔΙΚΑΣΤΗΡΙΟ  ΠΟΔΟΣΦΑΙΡΟΥ Ε.Π.Ο which is the last step in the appeal process. I think it's a last ditch effort to prove the the two previous hearings had some real flaws. Usually they just rubber stamp the EPO appeal (2nd stage) decision. 

[paokarag4]

To further that, in what I can recall with CAS, it's pretty rare they overturn decisions made by Federations/UEFA. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

[Yiankos]

23 hours ago, jvc said:

AEK is a better team.....they were fighting on 3 fronts,  have key injuries, and knocked out the Champions home and away....plus the cup.

jvc for your information, what AEK did in Europa League, PAOK did three times in the past years when AEK was losing one game after another in Europe, or when they were playing in lower divisions. And PAOK did eliminate Olympiakos twice from the cup, and did win home and away Olympiakos, but not all in the same year. And your point is that AEK deserves the championship for doing what PAOK was doing so many times?

[pash]

Have they really been in conference over this decision for over ten hours? Wow.

[Dutch Eagle]

JVC, AEK and PAOK have the best teams this season. Tomorrow’s game should have been the decider on the field. Unfortunately this is history now.

And for the record: AEK has two losses (Asteras away and Atromitos at home) and a GD of 40-12. PAOK has three losses (AEK, Oly and Asteras all away) and a GD of 46-11 without the 0-3 on paper. 

[BostonThanatos]

So the decision is we lose the match 0-3, but got the -3 tossed out and the 2 games with no fans also tossed.  Not bad.

[pash]

A good result. This brings us to 52 points, which means a win will bring us back on top.

-edit- it seems our team is appealing again regarding the actual game? This is really pressing our luck

Edited March 10, 2018 by pash

[BostonThanatos]

Yeah... I mean, I understand that if you look at it as the team and coach leaving without permission from the field/stadium...then maybe there's something to it...but from the moment something hits the other teams coach, wheather its a brick or a roll of toilet paper...you don't really have a leg to stand on.

[aekaraCLE]

Paok is the new Olympiacos of the league.......... 

[aekaraCLE]

No wonder they are called the Gavri of the North......

[BostonThanatos]

Yes...we CLEARLY run the league, and head all corruption.  

[paokarag4]

happy about getting the 3 points back, neither here nor there on having fans

Rule for tomorrows game, fans must be naked or no entry, only thing they'll be throwing onto the pitch is their cocks 

Olympiakos to take this decision to UEFA or CAS?