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PAE PAOK General News (2017-2018)


pash

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On 12-2-2018 at 11:19 PM, pash said:

So apparently Brkic *still* has a back problem. I thought this was all a bunch of BS? Read a few times today that he's on his way to Germany for some surgery. Wouldn't doubt that this still is just an opportunity to sit on his contract though.

The problem is still there for Brkic but the contract with him is ended in mutual consent (though we have to confirm this): http://inpaok.com/425495/ανακοίνωσε-το-τέλος-η-επο/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ο Ιβάν Σαββίδης, όπως έχει γίνει γνωστό, επέλεξε να παραμείνει στη Θεσσαλονίκη και ήδη έχει ξεκινήσει να συζητάει γύρω από την αντίδραση του μετά την τιμωρία της ομάδας από την Πρωτοβάθμια Πειθαρχική Επιτροπή της Λίγκας.

Αφού κλείσει ο κύκλος των επαφών, ενδεχομένως, να υπάρξει μια τοποθέτηση του ιδιοκτήτη της «ασπρόμαυρης» ΠΑΕ, ενώ θα καθοριστεί και η γενικότερη στρατηγική του ΠΑΟΚ γύρω από το συγκεκριμένο θέμα.

Υπάρχουν αρκετές σκέψεις και μία εξ αυτών είναι η απόσυρση της χορηγίας από την Σούπερ Λίγκα, θέμα που επίσης είχε θίξει κι ο Γιώργος Σαββίδης προτού γίνει γνωστή η απόφαση της Πρωτοβάθμιας Πειθαρχικής Επιτροπής.

Το να αποσυρθεί μια χορηγία, που έχει υπογραφεί για δύο χρόνια, δεν είναι ούτε εύκολη υπόθεση, ενώ θα πρέπει να υπάρξει και σχετική ενημέρωση και απόφαση από το Διοικητικό Συμβούλιο της «Σουρωτής ΑΕ», που θα συνεδριάσει σχετικά.

http://www.gazzetta.gr/football/superleague/article/1205924/efesi-prota-meta-i-horigia-tis-ligkas

Savvidis will probably terminate the sponsorship of his company ΣΟΥΡΩΤΗ with the Soupa League. I think that is the only consequent decision. If Savvidis club gets punished for a roll paper, then I see no reason why the Soupa League should get any further money from Savvidis. 

Btw, wouldn't it be funny if we ask the Bulgarian football federation for permission to play in their first league? :laugh:

Oh and considering UEFA... they already ranked us as third place and gave Olympiakos their 3 points back. http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=gre/domesticleague/index.html Now I get why some of you guys are afraid that Olympiakos might be spared. If that actually happens on Friday, all jokes aside, Savvidis should seriously consider to apply for the Bulgarian football association. 

Edited by Klaous
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58 minutes ago, jvc said:

^^I don't understand something in this circus of a situation.   Last year PAOK was losing in Leoforos,  a stupid fan decided to throw a object that hit PAOKs coach on the head....the game was abandoned and the match awarded to PAOK.   Was that not the same situation?   Was PAO punished appropriately?  Should PAOK get the points back?  And Olympiakos appeal should be won,  and points given back?  This situation is becoming very laughable! 

serious question because a] i dont remember and b] i can't be bothered looking it up. Did PAO lose 3 points as well as PAOK getting the win?

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1 hour ago, jvc said:

^^I don't understand something in this circus of a situation.   Last year PAOK was losing in Leoforos,  a stupid fan decided to throw a object that hit PAOKs coach on the head....the game was abandoned and the match awarded to PAOK.   Was that not the same situation?   Was PAO punished appropriately?  Should PAOK get the points back?  And Olympiakos appeal should be won,  and points given back?  This situation is becoming very laughable! 

The situation is almost similar, there are some differences though. 

1.) Ivic went straight to the doctor of the match. Olympiakos denied the doctor for 15 minutes to enter the changing rooms and see Garcia. 

2.) Savvas said straight into the cameras that he will take his team and go while it was not even clear what actually hit Garcia and if whether or not he was really hurt. No PAOK official said this during the time Ivic was examined by the doctor. 

3.) Ivic went to a public hospital while Garcia went to a private hospital. 

4.) Aretopoulos did not write anything in the match report about game suspension. Because of that the judge invited him to the court where he changed his statement and said that he suspended the match. Basically, he saved Olympiakos and his own ass with this.

Those differences will be the reason why PAOK will try to change the punishment in second instance. 

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Picking for straws? Just using the legal avenues that are available to us. Just like PAO did in the Ivic case. If there is fair justice in Greece (very doubtful), the right verdict will handed out. The problem is that issues like that are usually tried in biased media instead of the courts.

And as Klaus points out the two cases are not identical. There are many differences between them. And let's not forget that Garcia was not even supposed to be on the field according to match report.

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You still failed to realize that Garcia was not a coach of a team according to match paperwork and he should have not been on the field at all. Therefore there was never an injury (fake or otherwise) to an official of the game whitch calls for point deductions, etc. That claim should have been thrown out of the court, but Aretopoulos managed to prevent that with a manipulated match report.  

And yes our fans (and every team's fans) have done damage to their clubs and the game itself, but Toumba on that day was a church!

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As JVC points out, the bigger point is that he was struck on the head... that's what really counts, and the referee informed OSFP of their mistake, right or wrong as that may be, you will be heavily punished for throwing something at a coaches head and, as much as OSFP is milking it, not allowing the coach to sit there without pain which in today's world you just can't do. 

100 PAOK fans occupied a train station today and stopped trains from going through... wtf is going on... 

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9 hours ago, jvc said:

Bkackhawk,  I understand your frustration.  That being said, let's look at this from the outside looking in.  The fact that Garcia was not on paper is a technicality.  This situation is not like a drug dealer getting away because his rights were not read,  or another technicality.  In this situation only 1 thing counts,   was Garcia hit on the head by a fan....and it makes no difference that he wasn't on the sheet,  because he's the coach.  

No, actually the law counts for officials only. If Garcia was not decleared an official in time then he is simply not an official. However, Aretopoulos saved Olympiakos by saying that he corrected Olympiakos mistake. 

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8 hours ago, Alphonse said:

As JVC points out, the bigger point is that he was struck on the head... that's what really counts, and the referee informed OSFP of their mistake, right or wrong as that may be, you will be heavily punished for throwing something at a coaches head and, as much as OSFP is milking it, not allowing the coach to sit there without pain which in today's world you just can't do. 

100 PAOK fans occupied a train station today and stopped trains from going through... wtf is going on... 

Wrong, you should read the law precisely. A club will not simply get punished with -3 because someone was hit by paper roll on the head. The person needs to be an official, the person needs to be injured by the object that was thrown at him (how do we know he did not injure himself in the 15 minutes where Olympiakos denied the doctor to see him?), and most importantly, the game must have been suspended orderly. However, Olympiakos just left the stadium. The match report said nothing about an orderly game suspension. Only if the game was supended orderly three points can be deducted from PAOK on a legitimate basis. 

PAOK has every right to object to this punishment and I see a chance here that the 3 point deduction will be declared inadmissible because of irregularities commited by Aretopoulos and Olympiakos. 

Εάν από την ρίψη αντικειμένων υπάρξει σωματική βλάβη προσώπου νόμιμα ευρισκομένου στον αγωνιστικό χώρο, τιμωρείται με χρηματική ποινή από έξι χιλιάδες ευρώ (6.000) έως ογδόντα χιλιάδων ευρώ (80.000). Στην περίπτωση που υπάρξει οριστική διακοπή του αγώνα, επιπρόσθετα επιβάλλεται κατακύρωση του αγώνα υπέρ της αντίπαλης ομάδας και αφαίρεση τριών (3) βαθμών από το βαθμολογικό πίνακα και ποινή διεξαγωγής αγώνα χωρίς θεατές δύο (2) έως τρείς (3) αγωνιστικές.

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54 minutes ago, jvc said:

So it's ok to hit a coach on the head?  Next time Olympiakos should make sure their paper work in correct. Lol  And have the PAOK doctors check him.   Question for you....how can a doctor diagnose a injury without proper test,  that can take weeks to diagnose?   HE WAS HIT,   end of caffenio chater my friend.  

 

I do not care what your καφενείο thinks is morally right, I care about what exactly the law says. If a guy was officially there and the object thrown at him injured him as well it is only a monetary fine. In case the game was suspendend orderly then the punishment will be a 3 point deduction. You can even read it for yourself, why do I need to explain that to you?

Furthermore, do you actually call it an orderly suspenion when a team just decides to leave the stadium? Do you call it orderly when a referee has no clue what is going on and needs over 4 hours to write the match report? Do you call it orderly when there was not even a single announcement made that the game will be suspended? No, it was definetely not orderly managed by Aretopoulos. Somehow the game got suspended because Olympiakos simply just left. The match report backs that up. Do I need to post the match report again now? 

It is only after 5 days that Aretopoulos changed his mind and stated that he suspended the game orderly. And only on that basis PAOK got punished with the 3 point deduction. If you think this is according to law, well okay then, but I think differently. If the law is applied right, PAOK must be punished with a monetary fine only since Aretopoulos and Olympiakos obviously did not stick to the regularities which the law demands. But since it is Greece, regularities do not count for some people and clubs, making them able to do whatever they want while others get the highest possible punishment. This is what someone would call arbitrary justice. 

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44 minutes ago, jvc said:

Look I was upset last year when PAOK pulled the same thing....that being said,  if an object is thrown and it hits a player, coach....the penalty is abandonment and possibly of points deducted.   Those are the facts.

It is up to the referee to abandon the game, this decision cannot be taken by any club. This is the major difference between last year and this year. Have you heard a PAOK official saying into the camera that he will take his team and leave while the trainer was still checked by the doctor? Has PAOK denied the doctor entry for 15 minutes? Has the match report stated that PAOK just left? Those are the actual facts and difference. And if the second instance has some sense and applies the laws as they should, the 3 point deduction will be decleared void. No club on this world can just take the team and leave on its own, while the other club gets the maximum punishment because of a referee that has lost the control over the situation completely. 

In a nutshell, PAOK left in an orderly manner. Regarding how things turned out this time, it is highly questionable if Olympiakos left orderly as well. 

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PAOK fans are protesting in the center of Thessaloniki as well as in Edessa, Katerini, Kozani and Veria.

http://www.metrosport.gr/article/live-to-megalo-sillalitirio-tou-paok-stin-kamara

http://www.metrosport.gr/article/opadi-tou-paok-sta-grafia-tou-siriza-se-veria-edessa-ke-kozani

http://www.metrosport.gr/article/opadi-tou-paok-sto-dimarchio-katerinis-pic

Some 300-400 fans are also blocking the motorways around Saloniki according to Metropolis 95.5. I like that. Civil disobedience and unviolent protests are the only legitimate way to hurt this pathetic state. All motorways in Northern Greece should get blocked in order to further damage the Greek economy and put pressure on Greek politics. I for one have enough with the arrogance coming from Athens. They want war and they can have it! Since Olympiakos took this issue to the courts in the first place and still demands a further 6 point deduction this is no longer about football anymore. 

http://www.metrosport.gr/article/nea-proklisi-olimpiakou-zitai-extra-6

Olympiakos really thinks that they are "ruling this land", aren't they?

we_rule_this_land.jpg?1

Well, I say it is time to challenge that! Make this a political issue or nothing will change in this 3rd world country!

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From all the points that Klaus is giving you, you came to the conclusion that PAOK wants to be and probably is the new χαλίφης. I think the conversation with you is pointless. If that's you want to believe, it's fine with me. You, as a proud fan of Panathinaikos, can support the friend of your boss, Marinakis, and also AEK as much as you want. PAOK should get -6 and Olympiakos should also be returned the points that were deducted. This is fair and justice. The only thing I hope is my team beats AEK, the rest will be just fine.

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6 hours ago, jvc said:

Question for you....how can a doctor diagnose a injury without proper test,  that can take weeks to diagnose?   HE WAS HIT,   

First of all he was not hit in the head or face. Paper stream hit his back as shown on video.

How can a doctor diagnose an injury. Well denying the match doctor for 15 minutes to see the "injured" surely prevents him from properly diagnosing his injuries. And since he was eventually seen wearing a neck brace and claiming serious injuries, it sure was major negligence by Olympiakos officials to deny him prompt and professional medical help. 

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55 minutes ago, jvc said:

You basically want Olympiakos to go away....so PAOK can rule the land.  You don't want change my friend.  

So you think Savvidis is copying the monopoly Olympiakos had for the past decades? We will see in the next years if that will be the case because right now PAOK is not getting any special treatment. 7 ghost games, 3 point deduction last year, 3 point deduction in this year, several situations were PAOK has not get a penalty etc. pp. Yeah, of course we got favored with some calls sometimes, but not constantly and with the same αλητεία Olympiakos got them in the last several years. Right now, Savvidis is not the Χαλίφης in Greece, although a lot of Athenians are trying to frame him as one. Instead, he is fighting the ones who are the actual χαλίφηδες, just to name a few of those criminals we are talking about. I wonder when and if they will get punished for all of their criminal actions in the last decades. 

PAOK needs to be punished, but Olympiakos can "rule the land" and get away with everything they did? I disagree with this argumentation. If there is one club that needs the heaviest possible punishment, it is the one located in Peiraia. This is the club that made Greek football a mess. This is the club that had a monopoly on Greek football for 20 years. This is the club Marinakis (mis-)used to cash in several millions for his personal benefit. 

 

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You make good points Klaus, I just wonder is the PAOK lawyers did a good enough job with some of the points and how they handled it. I also wonder how much accountability is being put on Aretopoulos for the mess he has created.

I personally feel the PAOK lawyers needed to approach the 15 minutes OSFP denied anyone seen Gracia smarter than just claiming they botched the injury as that's where the judge did not take it as serious due to that.

Anyways, we will find out some time today what happens

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I too think our lawyers did not do very good job. They were caught off guard with the introduction of the changed match report by Aretopoulos, which happened when the court proceeding started and they did not have enough time to respond. They asked for a trial postponement but the judge denied it.

The appeal is taking place tomorrow, but I don't think there will be a verdict  right away. I think it will take days before they announce it. Don't forget on the same day the Olympiakos appeal (which was twice postponed)  takes place concerning their -3 point deduction case. 

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