ausgreek Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) And your two guys that were the worst were playing out of position. Like I said previously, most players are not world class out of position, even if they are in their rightful positions. Mantalos is in as an AM, or a CM or not in at all, Bakasetas as a SS or CF/Striker. Fortounis is always one game away from blowing a match apart-but never gets around to it. He should be a CM or even as a LW, he is one who can play well there. KPaps as a DM doesn't offer more than Samaris, Taxi, Zeca or Siopis in attack. He offers more in the way of ill-discipline and red cards. Edited July 20, 2017 by ausgreek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) On 7/20/2017 at 3:05 AM, ausgreek said: And your two guys that were the worst were playing out of position. Like I said previously, most players are not world class out of position, even if they are in their rightful positions. Mantalos is in as an AM, or a CM or not in at all, Bakasetas as a SS or CF/Striker. Fortounis is always one game away from blowing a match apart-but never gets around to it. He should be a CM or even as a LW, he is one who can play well there. KPaps as a DM doesn't offer more than Samaris, Taxi, Zeca or Siopis in attack. He offers more in the way of ill-discipline and red cards. Despite KPaps disciplinary issues - and I do agree he needs to control himself better - I think he is our best option at DM1. He is top class defensively, can win the ball, good in the air, strong on his feet, skilled at defending set-pieces and at supporting the CBs. He also has the guts to make some forward runs and be a real aerial thread on our set-pieces. Maybe most importantly though, his confidence, hunger, enthusiasm, and toughness is contagious. The way I see it, his teammates feel bigger, better and stronger when he is on the pitch and his opponents feel smaller. It's very much psychological but I think his presence is paramount and he should be a lock at DM when everyone's healthy. Edited July 24, 2017 by Argy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I agree with everything you said Argy. But I doubt Skibbe would play him there. He put him right back against Estonia and did well. He is a talented player. He and Stafylidis are needed in the starting line up. Stafylidis is becoming a key player for us and maybe a future captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Dean, he has already played him on DM before a couple of times. Edited July 25, 2017 by Argy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Yeah I know but he has only played him once there and that was for 10 minutes. Then he went right back. He was also played there by Markarian against Hungary and he played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argy Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I think if it wasn`t for his untimely injuries and suspensions we would have seen him in that position more often. I for one really support a 3 CB formation. We have the mobile full-backs and 3 top class CBs, I don't get why we have not given this a shot. This is what I would field: ------------------------------------Karnezis---------------------------------------- -------------------Manolas Papadopoulos Sokratis------------------ Torosidis-----------------------------------------------------------Stafylidis ---------------------Samaris-------------------Tachtsidis--------------------- ------------------------------------Fortounis------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------Donis--------------------------------------- ------------------------------------Mitroglou------------------------------------- Edited July 26, 2017 by Argy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 That's what the line up should be when Papadopoulos is fit. Those players are our best players with a few adjustments such as Mantalos for Donis and Zeca for either Samaris or Tachtsidis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgreek Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) The Skibbe won't play 3 CB's because he would have Toro, Stafy and the mids running back too much on the counter. Unless he uses KPaps as a DM that drops back as a CB in defence, where that would make four CB's and two wing backs. A 3 4 3 would then become a 4 5 1 or a 4 3 3. Orestis Manolas Sokratis Oikonomou Toro KPaps Zeca Stafylidis P Mantalos K Fortounis K Mitroglou Edited July 27, 2017 by ausgreek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Ausgreek that's is also a good line up. But a 4-2-3-1 is the best formation. It's more balanced. K.Paps has to be involved somewhere. Who knows he might do better than Samaris as the holding mid. Which also let's the other mid have more freedom in attack. Whether that's Zeca, Tachtsidis or even Maniatis. Another things is we haven't got good enough wingers. A 3-5-2 can be an option. Which let's Torosidis and Stafylidis play on the flanks. I'd prefer a 3-5-2 and play our best players but the 4-2-3-1 seems to be working for us, so I wouldn't change anything now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED SHERIFF Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 K.Pap in midfield will not happen...not sure what Oikonomou offers in any capacity. that 11 has 6 defenders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgreek Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) A 3 5 2 can even revert to a 4 4 2 in defence. 4 2 3 1 is very effective for Greece, I agree. Also what can be considered in a 3 4 3, Toro can play Right CB, alongside Manolas and Sokratis whilst Gianniotas, Donis or Manthatis can be on the Right flank. Actually, Samaris could play as the CMid, hark back to that World Cup goal, he doesn't get those opportunities too far back. A side note, I saw quite abit of Avraam last season, he looks like a tank and isn't timid either. Good CB still. Edited July 28, 2017 by ausgreek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED SHERIFF Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Avraam....Plays in the A League... We have CD who play in La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and top Greek clubs.. any thought of avraam is beyond outrageous.. K.Pap Siovas Sokratis Manolas Retsos Risvanis Koutroubis Oikonomou do I need to go on.....not a 33yo Brisbane Roar CD... Samaris and Taxi are walks ups in the 11... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgreek Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) Yes but do you agree on the latest suggestion about the 3 4 3 possibility? Don't worry about Avraam, that was a side issue. I may get arrested over this Sheriff! Risvanis, Retsos, Siovas, Koutroubis, Taxi, Samaris and possibly Oik are not proven to be better at CB, at the top level, than my friend Abraham (Avraam). Edited July 28, 2017 by ausgreek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED SHERIFF Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 your friend Avraam has not played at the top level for 5 years and before major knee injuries... Siovas is playing La Liga....Taxi has played Serie A... Avraam..is an ex footballer compared to the rest.. regarding formations...We can argue all night 3-4-3 or whatever...essentially in modern football all formations morph into a variation of 4-5-1 anyway you dice it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 http://m.contra.gr/Soccer/Hellas/saoydaravas-o-tziolhs.4793269.html Tziolis is now playing in Saudi Arabia. Does that mean he won't get chosen again in the national team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxou Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Depth in each position: Orestis Karnezis (Napoli?) Stefanos Kapino (Olympiakos) Kostas Lamprou (Ajax) Other alternative options are Mparkas (Aek), Vlachodimos (Panathinaikos, should be capped soonly) and Gianniotis (Olympiakos). CB: Sokratis Papastathopoulos (Dortmund) Kostas Manolas (Roma) Kyriakos Papadopoulos (Hamburg) Panagiotis Retsos (Leverkuzen?) Dimitris Siovas (Leganes) Marios Oikonomou (SPAL) RB: Vasilis Torosidis (Bologna) Giorgos Tzavellas (Alanyaspor) Mpampis Lykogiannis (Saint-Ettiene?) LB: Kostas Stafylidis (Hamburg?) Leonardo Koutris (Olympiakos) Alexandros Katranis (Saint-Ettiene) DMF: Andreas Samaris (Newcastle?) Panagiotis Tachtsidis (Olympiakos) Dimitris Kourbelis (Panathinaikos) Manolis Siopis (Olympiakos) Zeca (Panathinaikos) Giannis Maniatis (Alanyaspor) AMF/Wingers: Kostas Fortounis (Olympiakos) Tasos Donis (Stuttgart) Petros Mantalos (Aek) Tasos Chatzigiovannis (Panathinaikos) Giannis Gianniotas (Olympiakos?) Lazaros Christodoulopoulos (Aek) CF: Kostas Mitroglou (Benfica) Nikos Karelis (Genk) Apostolos Vellios (Nottingham Forest) Tasos Mpakasetas (Aek) Dimitris Diamantakos (Bochum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I don't think Retsos will leave this season. Although he is young he should be playing in this team. Chatzigiovannis is an excellent prospect, looks like he is becoming a good player at PAO. I thought Inter were trying to buy Stafylidis. I'm liking the midfield now Boxou. Kourbelis is now replacing Tziolis hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxou Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Retsos will play for Olympiakos in the games against Rijeka for the champions league and then he will be gone, numerous journalists in both Greece and Germany reported that Olympiakos reached an agreement with Bayer Leverkuzen for 15 million euros and 20% of the money of the next sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 We'll see what happens. He is 19 he has time still. He will still improve if he stays at Olympiakos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgelaz Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 hopefully he flourishes. seems like most of the best greek players though don't leave the super league until 23-25. eg) Mitroglou, Sokratis, Manolas, Samaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgelaz Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Mitroglou Staf Fortounis Tachtsi Samaris Tzav Sokratis Kpaps Manolas Torosidis Karnezis Subs Zeca, Karelis, Mantalos, Gianniotas, kapino Possible players if form picks up this season Kone, Pelkas I think this is skibbe's template and is pretty solid and has that euro 2004 family feel, with arguably more talented players rather than scrappy. fetfa and holebas would have been useful but attitude problems could be cancerous for the locker room, and we're getting results so I'm happy for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgreek Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Lazo u unpredictable person, are you parking the bus or is KPaps DM with Taxi and Samaris two ACM'ers in that formation, when they are on the attack? Pirates always play with two DM's anyway. Mantalos would do well as an AM. Edited August 12, 2017 by ausgreek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I dont think some of the Euro 04 side is better than some of our current players. Below is a list of the players I think of who is better on their prime: Giannakopoulos > Gianniotas Karagounis > Fortounis Seitaridis > Torosidis Nikopolidis > Karnezis Tsiartas > Mantalos Basinas > Tachtsidis Zagorakis > Samaris Nikolaidis > Karelis Manolas > Kapsis Sokratis > Dellas Stafylidis = Fyssas Mitroglou = Charisteas The thing is I was a bit too young to remember the Euro 04 side and how good they were but from watching clips and reading up on some of the players the majority of that team is better than the team we have now. We were a very defensive team that played on the counter attack. We also are like that now. In my opinion there are 2 or 3 players currently who are even better than some of the players of the 04 side. The other thing is we have talent now. Back then we did as well but back then we had a very good and smart coach who disciplined his players and had a system that worked very well and suited perfectly with the players he had. Similarly that's what's happening now. The big difference is the midfield back then took charge, now I don't see that. Our defence is still solid like it was then. We have weakened in the full back position and the wing positions. Mitroglou is as good as Charisteas but Charisteas was faster. I don't know maybe someone else can analyse the old crop and current crop better than me but I do believe we have good enough talent now to score more goals and so on. But we don't have depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgreek Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 We have depth that hasn't quite been tapped, or is just starting to be, all the names mentioned by many; Kourbelis, Retsos, Lykog, Manthatis, Donis etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean97 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 7 hours ago, jvc said: The 2004 team was way better!!! This team is on a rebuilding process....doing good in my opinion. If they keep improving at this rate, I predict in 4 years we will see good things. Yeah i agree. The reason why we are improving is because of our defense mostly. http://www.agonasport.com/agonasport-allnews/magical-debut-for-bouchalakistwo-golares-with-forest Have a look at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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