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Suggested Call Ups, Starting 11


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On 7/18/2018 at 11:37 PM, Brklyngrk said:

The reason that Tziolis started in the Saudi Arabia game was because we had an experimental team and Skibbe wanted someone who was familiar with those players and he plays in their league. Regarding Fetfa, while I want him to be included in the next round of games, we need to put his past performances in perspective.  He wasn't exactly Messi when he played but still an upgrade over a Zeca on the wing.

Put things in perspective and we’re comparing him to Messi?

You’re in fact very off the mark here, Fetfa has being good in his performances for the ethniki

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On 7/18/2018 at 11:52 PM, Rockafeller Skank said:

Pretty safe from your side to call me delusional, without naming someone better though, dont you think? I am waiting.

Tziolis is horrid file, xehaseto, no debate there are SL midfielders at mid table teams that are better

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Every time Fetfatzidis has performed for the national team he always out performed most players in the team. He has this talent that no other Greek has. His quick feet and excellent dribbling is needed and can play one touch. He has the best first touch in my opinion. He is technical and very skillful and create something out of nothing. The only thing he needs to work on its his shooting. His height doesnt help him in aerial battles but his speed and technique overshadows that. 

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On 7/23/2018 at 9:42 PM, Boxou said:

my squad for the nations league games starting of september would be something like that;

karnezis

stafylidis manolas sokratis mpakakis

kourmpelis zeca 

lazaros pelkas fetfatzidis

mitroglou

 

nice I'd do

 

karnezis

stafylidis manolas sokratis mpakakis

??? zeca 

donis  fortounis/mantalos lazaros

mitroglou

 

biggest question mark is that second cm/cdm spot. tachtsi/kourbelis/gala/samaris form pending.

from last season for it should be either tachtsi or gala imo but tachtsi's future is unsure and gala barely gets consideration from skibbe

 

Edited by georgelaz
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No chance of this 11 but i would go with this

                              Karnezis

                Socratis Siovas Manolas

         Retsos Zeca Samaris Lykogiannis

                  Donis Mitroglou Karelis

 

Bench

Mavropanos Petsos Stafylidis Vlachodimos Hadzidiakos Marinos Galitsios Katranis Stavrothanasopoulos Kolovos Lambrou Dimitriou Holebas

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I think the Ninis story has to be the most tragic. Very gifted player, similar to Iniesta. Had excellent ball control with very good passing. Another player who I rated was Andreas Tatos. Could never fit into Olympiakos, he for sure had talent. 

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kaltsas's best season for veria might have been as good as ninis's best season at pao and with less quality around him. he was superleague player of the league and bagged 12 goals and 7 assists as a winger with players like berg, mitroglou in form

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Superleague_Greece

 

ninis I think just had more of a spotlight on him cause pao is a bigger club

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No George, Ninis was/is a good player and was in great form once. 

2010 Roma ring a bell? The ethniki in recent years and I’m talking since winning the Euro, only played beautiful football when Ninis played centrally for us and we say nice flowing football played on the ground. It was never many games sadly.

I still like watching Nini play. Hope he comes back to Super League, the last few seasons but for a stint in Belgium with Charleroi, have being a complete waste  

Edited by Alphonse
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On 7/26/2018 at 8:11 PM, georgelaz said:

nice I'd do

 

karnezis

stafylidis manolas sokratis mpakakis

??? zeca 

donis  fortounis/mantalos lazaros

mitroglou

 

biggest question mark is that second cm/cdm spot. tachtsi/kourbelis/gala/samaris form pending.

from last season for it should be either tachtsi or gala imo but tachtsi's future is unsure and gala barely gets consideration from skibbe

 

Oh yeah screw me I totally forgot Donis..so obviously him instead of fetfaztidis. 

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           Mitroglou

Donis Fortounis Lazaros

     Torosidis Zeca

Staf Sokratis Manolas Bakakis

      Karnezis

alternatives pending on form

mantalos (for fortounis)

fetfa (for lazaro or fortounis)

samaris (for torosidis)

retsos (for bakakis)

pelkas (for donis/lazaros/fortounis)

kpaps (for 3 atb and toro)

karelis (for a tired mitro)

holebas should really be on the team but that's dead and gone.

 

Edited by georgelaz
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10 hours ago, georgelaz said:

           Mitroglou

Donis Fortounis Lazaros

     Torosidis Zeca

Staf Sokratis Manolas Bakakis

      Karnezis

alternatives pending on form

mantalos (for fortounis)

fetfa (for lazaro or fortounis)

samaris (for torosidis)

retsos (for bakakis)

pelkas (for donis/lazaros/fortounis)

kpaps (for 3 atb and toro)

karelis (for a tired mitro)

holebas should really be on the team but that's dead and gone.

 

Lazo you rocked the mike with that first team re.

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People asking for Ninis to rejoin Ethniki is this a sitcom?

I think he would fit splendid in our A side:
 

Mantzios(SMIRNI) - Nazlidis (ARIS)

Koutsianikoulis(OFI) - Ninis(i dont know) - Plattelas(OFI)

Tziolis(SomeOilMoneyClub)

Baxevanidis(XANTHI) - Triantafillopoulos (ASTERAS) - Papazoglou(OFI) - Marinakis(PANAITOLIKOS)

Velidis(PAS GIANNINA)

 

I think it works.

 

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1 hour ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

People asking for Ninis to rejoin Ethniki is this a sitcom?

If you don't consider the club he plays, would you argue with him being in the team? Tziolis on the other plays for a s%$#! club and is a s%$#! player. Ninis is a free agent and is definitely not a bad player. His career didn't turn out the way we wanted it to but the talent is still there. His passing and vision shits on Tziolis. He has better technique than Fortounis and can has great ball control and is clever. He can also play 1 touch like Fetfatzidis. But the only thing is he is not as fast as he use to be. I hope he plays in the superleague this season and shows form...

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18 minutes ago, Dean97 said:

If you don't consider the club he plays, would you argue with him being in the team? Tziolis on the other plays for a s%$#! club and is a s%$#! player. Ninis is a free agent and is definitely not a bad player. His career didn't turn out the way we wanted it to but the talent is still there. His passing and vision shits on Tziolis. He has better technique than Fortounis and can has great ball control and is clever. He can also play 1 touch like Fetfatzidis. But the only thing is he is not as fast as he use to be. I hope he plays in the superleague this season and shows form...

If I look posts from 2014 and prior. Will I find you bashing on Katsouranis and Karagounis for needing to step down?
If I do. Your opinion is discarded. Talent was still there, right?

I still shouldn't even "try" that much thoughwith your unreal expectation. Ninis hasn't played on his top level for at least 5-6 years (since he came loanie at paok).

He is nowhere near Greek Super League level. If he was, he wouldn't have to go to Israel. He would easily find a team in Greece to meet his demands for such a "talented" player as you say.

 

Edited by Rockafeller Skank
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For the sake of god, Ninis couldn't make a case in the greek superleague NEITHER in Paok NOR in Panathinaikos when he came back to Greece in the 2013-2015 period I suppose. 

I'll say it again, the last time I've heard of Ninis was a year ago when a relegation side in Israel wanted to get rid of him. I guess we have nothing more to talk about. 

Also please, are you for real and you think Torosidis could be our starting midfielder ? ?? The guy has always been a RB/LB in his career, are we going to teach him how to play as a midfielder in the age of 33?

I just can't...

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1 hour ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

If I look posts from 2014 and prior. Will I find you bashing on Katsouranis and Karagounis for needing to step down?
If I do. Your opinion is discarded. Talent was still there, right?

I still shouldn't even "try" that much thoughwith your unreal expectation. Ninis hasn't played on his top level for at least 5-6 years (since he came loanie at paok).

He is nowhere near Greek Super League level. If he was, he wouldn't have to go to Israel. He would easily find a team in Greece to meet his demands for such a "talented" player as you say.

 

He is no where near "Greek Superleague level". Are you kidding me? He has toned down from over the years that's because of his decision making. But you are saying his talent is not even worthy of the superleague? We are talking about talent here. I said Tziolis hasn't got it anymore. Yet still gets chosen. All i said was for Ninis to play again and get in form again then he will be in the team. 

A long time ago a former poster of this site posted highlights of Ninis in a Panathinaikos Jersey in 2015 or 2016 where he clearly pointed out how a midfielder should pass the ball. He was clearly outlining why our current midfielders such as Samaris, Maniatis and Tziolis are at such a low level when making a long, clever and correct pass. Also pointing out why we lose matches in national team. It's because our midfielders don't have the football IQ of Ninis. We are writing Ninis off because where he has played. Tziolis is captain and playing in the Saudi League. So the league you play in shouldn't matter then. 

When Ninis is in form he is clearly on another level compared to Mantalos, Samaris and so on. His form and descison making have caused him to play in Israel and now he is looking for a club. Fetfatzidis played at Saudi and we were saying he needs to be in the national team regardless of the league he plays in. Katsouranis was 34 when we were saying for him to step down. He should of retired at 33 not 37. I've never said Karagounis to retire as he was always playing up to standards at the age he was. We were always wanting new blood in midfield and we still are. 

1 hour ago, Boxou said:

For the sake of god, Ninis couldn't make a case in the greek superleague NEITHER in Paok NOR in Panathinaikos when he came back to Greece in the 2013-2015 period I suppose. 

I'll say it again, the last time I've heard of Ninis was a year ago when a relegation side in Israel wanted to get rid of him. I guess we have nothing more to talk about. 

Also please, are you for real and you think Torosidis could be our starting midfielder ? ?? The guy has always been a RB/LB in his career, are we going to teach him how to play as a midfielder in the age of 33?

I just can't...

I'm not all in for Torosidis at CDM. But he can't do it anymore at rb in my opinion. He still deserves to be a part of the team. Georgelaz has stated saying we should try Torosidis at CDM. He could be used as a sub if need be. He can score the odd goal here or there. 

If you remember Ninis was in form when he came back to PAO. He was then called up after. He then moved to Belgium and did well for himself if you look at his best moments. Can one of you tell me apart from Sokratis and Manolas, who is competing at a top level week in and week out from our talent pool that should be a lock in the team? I'll wait...

Samaris? Tachtsidis? Stafylidis? Fortounis?. The Greek superleague is top level right? It isn't. Retsos and Donis are young and are doing well for themselves in a high level league. Most of our "starting players" now are playing in the superleague. Eg. Torosidis, Lazaros, Pelkas, Mantalos, Fortounis, Bakasetas and now Fetfatzidis. Tziolis in Saudi and Tachtsidis is clubless. Ninis and Fetfatzidis have a higher football IQ of Greek players but are not intelligent enough to go beyond in their careers. Imagine if they did though...

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I can't believe what I'm currently reading! To begin with, I'll say it once again so all of you can understand. Ninis DEFINITELY doesn't belong to any of the top-7 sides in Greece AT THE MOMENT. He's good for some Larissa or Levadiakos if that's you want to hear.

I simply don't care what kind of prospect he was 10 years ago, today he looks like an ex-football player who has lost the desire of playing professional football in a "high" level which is obvious by the fact that his last team was a relegation side in Israel, a league which is worse than the Greek one. Let me remind you that before he signs for them he was also KICKED OUT by club in Belgium, Mechelen, which all of sudden got relegated this year.

Secondly, Ninis played in Greece from 2013 to 2015. One year to Paok and one in Pao. Again, in none of these average sides he could establish himself as a starter. Friendly reminder his contract was terminated by both teams way before its duration was over. 

Also I hope you joking when you saying that Ninis in form is a better player than Mantalos and Samaris. When was the last time this guy was in form, was it in 2013? He's been totally irrelevant ever since then. I'm not claiming that Mantalos and Samaris was world class material but they've had FAR better careers than Ninis hands down.

 

 

Onto the next topic. 

1) The league a guy plays OF COURSE matters. I've said it plenty of times Tziolis is a mysterious case and he shouldn't be the rule but the exception. You argue that, for example, someone who an irregular starter in Germany has the same chances to get called up with someone who plays for a club in freaking Saudi Arabia? Well at least I know that doesn't happen in serious NTs, in which I don't consider ours to be ever since 2014. And don't get started with Belgium or Brazil and their players in China, these guys went to play there only for the cash to flow. They could play wherever they'd want. Unlike Tziolis or anyone like him who ended up in Saudi Arabia because NO team from the developed part of the world was and will ever be interested in his service. 

2) Torosidis can't be used as a DM. Not as a sub neither as a starter. He's precious for the leadership he provides and he can be a part of this team until Tsimikas completely overtakes him. Fortunately we have some guys in his position who are still young, like Stafylidis, Mpakakis, Lykogiannis, Tsimikas and Koutris to say some. I also don't think Torosidis can't be useful against the likes of Estonia, Finland and Hungary which we're going to face next couple of months. Are these teams really world beaters that someone like Torosidis would be a liability if being used? Definitely no for me.

3) Aside of Sokratis and Manolas, other players who play in a high level are Karnezis (signed for Napoli, played the 2nd part of the last season with Watford as a starter), Donis (irregular starter for Stuttgart), Retsos (starter for Leverkusen, currently injured), Mitroglou (scored about 15 goals for Marseille last season even if his playing time was minimal. Here it is, you asked for one and I stated 4.. Sokratis and Manolas might be the only world class players we have but they are not the only players who play in a high level (aka top-5 league)

5. I'll say this and I'm over, sorry for the long post. If Ninis and Donis were "high IQ players" then they would have done FAR better career choices than what they actually did. I dare you to say us what's so impressive in their career that they deserve a place to the NT just because they were promising as youngsters. Unfortunately talent is not the only way to go through, my friend. You need to put hard work in order to succeed, and that's something none of them was able to do. That's why they are not high IQ players, if they were a little bit smarter they wouldn't be looking as overwight ex-footballers who play in the exotic Israel and Saudi Arabia. Fetfatzidis might establish himself as a rotation player in Olympiakos but that's definitely not a career to be proud of.

Edited by Boxou
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Of course you need hard work to go further. Ninis didn't work hard and was not smart enough to move to la Liga many years ago. Go look at his instagram and tell me he has lost the desire. Yes he was touted as the next big thing at 16 and that might of gone to his head but it doesn't mean he has given up playing professionally. Look at the way he plays. I don't know how he has been playing over the last year but I know a good friend of mine who used to be on this forum agreed that he would play Ninis and Fetfatzidis right now in this team. 

How can you call Fetfatzidis fat? Just because he played in Saudi it means he shouldn't play for the national team? Comon. I also remember you talking about Gianniotas and saying that he doesn't deserve to be in the starting 11 but whenever he has played he done more than Bakasetas and Mantalos put together on the wing. But no we will disregard his talent and work ethic on the pitch because we have so "better" hardworking players in the team right? What has Tachtsidis, Samaris, Fortounis, Mantalos, Mitroglou, Tziolis, Bakaestas done? We haven't made a tournament in 4 years! Our goals come mainly from set pieces and not much attacking play. 

Yet we have enough better talent than Gianniotas, Ninis and Fetfatzidis. We have always counted on our defence to win matches. Always. We never had good attacking talent that can save us and carry the team like a Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo or Modric. 

We are not gifted with a lot of good skillful and attacking talent like the rest are. Lazaros is average at best when it comes to the national team. Pelkas is being integrated slowly. I have high hopes for him. 

Karnezis was not a starter week in and week out. Mitroglou missed half a season, Retsos is one and is young and Donis had a few injuries but still did well for himself. Sokratis and Manolas play week in and week out and are the teams best players. Their teams rely on them. You can't say that for the majority of our players. That's a fact. 

Ninis attitude is something separate to his talent. He doesn't have the right attitude and that backfired on him. Same goes for Fetfatzidis. You blamed Gianniotas because he played in the second division in Spain? At least that is better than Saudi Arabia and Israel, right?  Can you tell me a game where either of those 3 played bad for the national team? If anything they all had more good matches than bad. I can think of numerous games where Bakasetas, Fortounis and Mantalos didn't play well or were very average. Games against Bosnia, Estonia Belgium come to memory.

We should'nt  be so quick on axing players from our plans so easy. We need to give them chance after chance becuaee of that natural talent they posses what they could for our national team. Donis is still young and has time and at the moment he is not doing bad for himself. Fortounis against better opposition shits himself.  There are other games where he is doing nothing and is not motivated. He is not that fast either. I hope for players like Androutsos, Limnios, Lamprou and Manthatis to exceed expectations. 

All I'm saying is that there is some talent in our team, but there are some players who have God gifted talent which unfortunately due to a bad mindset and also Greek media shitting on them for being "lazy or too short" are not wanted and want players like Tziolis and Tzavellas instead. I have never seen the Greek media s%$#! on Tziolis, I am still waiting for that day to happen. Out football setup is absolute trash and you can see why with the  national team selections. 

 

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Bravo re @Boxou, thank you for showing me I'm not losing my mind. How Ninis is even in any sort of conversation is baffling. Guy hasn't played regular mins for a club since 2012. And if I read another "But tziolis plays in Saudi and gets call ups" I'll start following the Cyprus NT. 
YES we all agree Tziolis shouldn't be a starter, but come on guys, we get it. Tzolis is bad 
My cousin who hasn't kicked a ball since 2009 is pretty fit? Saw him score a cracker back when we were in high school, should we give him a gig?? Can't be worse than Tziolis??

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