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Original 21

Suggested Call Ups, Starting 11

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Original 21    462

We had a topic like this on the old site so why not open one here. For the Faroe islands game Id start

Karnezis

Toro Sokratis Manolas Holebas

Tachtsidis Samaris

Fetfa Kone Fortounis

Aravidis

Other call ups: Kapino, Vellidis, Bakakis, K Pap, Stafy, Mitroglou, Samaras, Anakoglou, Siovas, Lagos, Lazaros, Gianniotas, and Karelis

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Giourkas    733

Samaris gets the bench for me. Kyrgiakos has too much passion and talent to leave out of the starting 11. And we all know this squad could use passion..

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levendis    14

I cant really explain Samaris recent string of poor NT games. He's played really well for Porto all year so it really is puzzling. I love Kpaps as much as anyone, but this team desperatly needs some possitive play from the central midfielders which he simply cannot provide. I'm not a huge fan of Taxi but I agree that its his time to start.

I didnt see a team with a lack of passion against Hungary, that's not what prevented us from scoring a goal. Hungary was smart in just letting us have possession knowing we wouldn't able to muster any sort of legitimite scoring opportunity while they just sat back and defended. For all the possession we had they ulitmatly had the best scoring opportunities.

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Giourkas    733

Ah the what came first debate.. s%$#! midfield vs s%$#! forwards. Egg or chicken? :P

Edited by Giourkas

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J1078    301

All I know Samaris should not be starting I never thought he was good to begin with he's an average to below average player at best

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Reaper    1,389

All I know Samaris should not be starting I never thought he was good to begin with he's an average to below average player at best

 

It is an interesting point and this player kind of slipped under the radar against Hungary when it came to criticism. I actually like the player but not as a DM. For me he is a player who thrives in the the attacking third, he never seems to clever when he has the game laid out in front of him. Michel seemed to understand Samaris's limitations and how to get the best of him.

 

We had K. Paps as the destroyer and I thought he did a fairly good job - a little disappointed with his negative passing however. But if K. Paps was the destroyer, surely Samaris should have been an '8' - the transitional player who brings the ball to the wingers and Kone. However he seemed invisible most the game, which was a shame.  

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RED SHERIFF    661

the problem is that we don't have a natural no.6.....Taxi is the best option..in theory he and Samaris should be the no.6 and no.8 locks for the next 3 campaigns..until EURO 2020....In theory they should complement each other...they have in theory the right game and tools.....

this would unleash Kone,Fetfa as the no.10 or wide player...according to opposition....then this would allow players like Ninis,Mavrias,Kolovos,Mandalos,Fortounis,Pelkas, Karelis,Lazaros to fight for the other wide/mid positions....and rotate thru, provide options,cover and depth....

 

Players like Lagos,Bouchalakis would then be the cover for Samaris,Taxi....this is how you build squads for a 5-8 year period..

 

then players like Donis (Juve -Sussuolo), find it easier to slot in when their time and opportunity comes...

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Original 21    462

I agree Red Sheriff, but Samaris and tachtsidis really need to step up and cement their spots.

Also Anakoglou is a very good central midfielder, much better than the over hyped Bouchalakis, by this time next year he will be in the ethniki as a rotational option at the very least. His performances have improved so much since he was allowed to move forward more with AEK and not defend so much. Next to Tachtsidis or K Pap in the midfield he'd be great.

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RED SHERIFF    661

not sure if K.pap if the midfield answer...yes Taxi and Samaris need to step up..(hence why I say in theory).

 

I think we need to take a deep breath about anakoglou and a lot of the AEK players....there is a step up in playing in GSL...

The weekly grind and trips to places like Tripoli,PAS,Xanthi, Panetolikos,Panionios, is a massive difference to some of the strolls v Alimos,Episkopi etc...

 

Traditionally Greek NT players come from the top 6 of a 'stronger' GSL . Players with experience in  UCL,Europa Competition...

 

No surprise the number of starters v Hungary are Serie A , Bundesliga regulars....

 

it's a massive step up to a watered down B ethniki...with 'two leagues north and south'

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Original 21    462

But Bouchalakis has done better? Oh yeah I forgot he scored in a friendly against the worst milan team ever back in July...

And I said by next year when he will be playing for one of the two best teams in the super league, not now.

Edited by Original 21

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RED SHERIFF    661

no Bouchalakis has not done better this season...however he is a couple of years younger...and has more of the physical tools in terms of size that he can develop on...

 

I think Bouchalakis needs more game time.....Love to see him at a club like Tripolis,Atromitos,PAOK....There is an upside...

I believe that with a 24yo anakoglou we have seen enough of him to think there is not much improvement left....hey..hope I'm wrong for the good good of Greek football.....this is a position were we could do with both anakoglou and Bouchalakis stepping up...

 

again .....Taxi and Samaris are the ones that need to take control for the next 5 years....

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Reaper    1,389

Was interesting, in perhaps one of Fetfatzidis last games for Genoa, he played as a striker. lol. Fetfatzidis is not very bright from what I have seen in interviews and I remember him clearly stating more than once he likes to play right wing. However, whenever he has played in the middle he has done very well and even him playing as a striker in one game for Genoa.. scored two goals...

 

I believe he should play just behind the striker.

 

Kone, for me, finds it tough in many games to trap a football. Hungary was another example of this. I is very frustrating to watch Fetfa beat two defenders, cut inside, lay it off to Kone for a quick one two - just for the ball to hit Kone's ankle and end up with a Hungarian defender. Samaras would have many similar games. Ball comes to them. They try and control it. Gets a little bit away from them.. they rescue it... by this time they have 3 players trying to tackle them and no space. Impossible to play one touch football with these guys. Lazaros is similar also, both he and Samaras give the ball away for fun on the right hand side. Sure, you can play these 3 players and they will score eventually..Lazaros 1 goal in 21 games.. I am sure in another 21 he might get another etc... but really we should be looking at players who can play one touch football in attacking positions.

 

I would build the team more like this and give them some games together to gel, the way Lazaros and Kone got to no avail..

 

.............................Karnezis...........................

 

Toro......Manolas...........Sokratis...........Xolebas

 

........................K. Paps......Samaris..................

 

Gianniotas..................Fetfa.....................Kaltsas

 

.........................Mitroglou.................................

 

 

Gianniotas is someone I have watched in the Europa Cup and in the league. He is a highly skilled player with a very good shot. He is also very good technically. Far more advanced than players like Kone or Lazaros.

 

Kaltsas is a player who has outscored Athansiadis this season and is a winger for Veria! He also has 7 assists this season.  He is someone who who should have been given the green light.

 

Ninis is someone who in or out of form, is a far better passer and technician than Samaris. I always wanted to see him as a Xavi style midfielder with someone next to him like K.Paps to do the heavy lifting. I would start grooming him as a central midfielder.

Edited by Reaper

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Reaper    1,389

 

 

 - i think we're going overboard trying to slam lazaros.

 

 

For me it is nothing personal against him. I hope he has a great career and raises the profile of greeks abroad the way players like Zikos did. I just feel, like with many players who get many games for Greece, he does more harm than good for Greece. I think Greece has far far better players.  Personally, I would not have such a one dimensional in any national team and to be honest - not many teams have a player like Lazaros for obvious reasons.

 

If football was more like rugby - where the further up the pitch you get tackled the better, Lazaros would be captain, unless Samaras is fit. However in a possession game, in 2015 - I find Greece is scraping the barrel with such a player. He could not dribble past defenders without getting tackled the majority of times, because he lacks the skill. The heart is there and I have seen Lazaros play one above average game for Greece in my life. I have also seen try very hard in some Italian games. He is def more suited to a free role. However I would not even put someone like Fetfa in the same sentence as Lazaros, as I am yet to see a poor national game by Fetfa.

 

Either way, you don't have to worry what others think about him. I am not promising anything, but I recon he will get many many more starts whatever he does - same with Kone. Someone at the EPO sees what you see in him and that is all that matters. However, on this forum where we can talk about what we would do if we were managers, I would not let Lazaros near the squad. Same with Katsouranis and Vyntra. I also think Kone should not be in the starting 11. Kone and Lazaros have had 41 games in total for the NT and 2 goals between them both, one each. Ninis and Fetfa (both younger than Kone and Lazaros) have 50 games between them both and 6 goals in total - 3 each. But forget the goals - just watching Ninis and Fetfa in the NT, you can see they are a couple of classes above Lazaros and Kone. If Ninis, Fetfa and Gianniotas did not exist, I would still try and replace Kone and Lazaros with someone else. For me the problem the last 11 years for Greece has not been who has been left out. The problem is who has been allowed to play.. There are different types of fans. Some fans like to see heart and passion. In that case, I would give Lazaros 6/10. For actually helping Greece win? 2/10. I think Kolovos is pretty average, but if he played in Lazaros position and didn't give the ball away as much as Lazaros - I would already give him 5/10 - automatically as a reward. Possession is everything if a team doesn't have the ability to play fast counter attacks, which Greece doesn't atm. 

Edited by Reaper

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RED SHERIFF    661

I don't think it's fair to say the EPO stooges are looking after Kone and Lazaros...it's a very easy Greek style cop out to raise a conspiracy when we don't agree..

 

Both of them had a very good 12-18 months in the Serie A....And play in positions we lack in...they do have an element of X factor...and neither have been automatic starters in the NT 11....unlike other clowns like Kats - Maniatis - Tziolis - Gekas - Salpi...

 

 

I think it's way too much of a risk to play players like Giannotas, kaltsas, Aravidis based on form against poor domestic competition.

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Dean97    154

For me it is nothing personal against him. I hope he has a great career and raises the profile of greeks abroad the way players like Zikos did. I just feel, like with many players who get many games for Greece, he does more harm than good for Greece. I think Greece has far far better players.  Personally, I would not have such a one dimensional in any national team and to be honest - not many teams have a player like Lazaros for obvious reasons.

 

If football was more like rugby - where the further up the pitch you get tackled the better, Lazaros would be captain, unless Samaras is fit. However in a possession game, in 2015 - I find Greece is scraping the barrel with such a player. He could not dribble past defenders without getting tackled the majority of times, because he lacks the skill. The heart is there and I have seen Lazaros play one above average game for Greece in my life. I have also seen try very hard in some Italian games. He is def more suited to a free role. However I would not even put someone like Fetfa in the same sentence as Lazaros, as I am yet to see a poor national game by Fetfa.

 

Either way, you don't have to worry what others think about him. I am not promising anything, but I recon he will get many many more starts whatever he does - same with Kone. Someone at the EPO sees what you see in him and that is all that matters. However, on this forum where we can talk about what we would do if we were managers, I would not let Lazaros near the squad. Same with Katsouranis and Vyntra. I also think Kone should not be in the starting 11. Kone and Lazaros have had 41 games in total for the NT and 2 goals between them both, one each. Ninis and Fetfa (both younger than Kone and Lazaros) have 50 games between them both and 6 goals in total - 3 each. But forget the goals - just watching Ninis and Fetfa in the NT, you can see they are a couple of classes above Lazaros and Kone. If Ninis, Fetfa and Gianniotas did not exist, I would still try and replace Kone and Lazaros with someone else. For me the problem the last 11 years for Greece has not been who has been left out. The problem is who has been allowed to play.. There are different types of fans. Some fans like to see heart and passion. In that case, I would give Lazaros 6/10. For actually helping Greece win? 2/10. I think Kolovos is pretty average, but if he played in Lazaros position and didn't give the ball away as much as Lazaros - I would already give him 5/10 - automatically as a reward. Possession is everything if a team doesn't have the ability to play fast counter attacks, which Greece doesn't atm. 

 

 

i agree with alot of what your saying but ninis and fetfatzidis have had more caps than lazaros and kone yes lazaros and kone are older but with a few more games they will bag in more goals for the ethniki 

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Dean97    154

i also think we should try lazaros in a more central postion  i also thought kone was gonna be the next karagounis but these past few games he has been very average for me he is not playing as good as he was in the wc

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AEK86    21

I liked what I saw from Kone in the lead-up to the World Cup and in Brazil; he had that attacking spark and was dangerous in the opponent's third; something which was sorely lacking for the NT. He was also having a solid season in Serie A. However, he's inconsistent and this year we've seen a dip in his form without question. Discipline is also still an issue with this player (not the only one on the NT). I'd still have him in my 11 though, given that I've yet to see another good "8" emerge. 

 

As for Christodoulopoulos, I've always thought he lacked technique and his decision-making is questionable (along with many of our attackers); not to mention his penchant for constantly losing possession... I'm definitely not as high on this player but credit to him: he's willing to run at defenders and he does have a certain pace and athleticism which can be helpful when we're on the counter. I'd be willing to try him in the center but ideally we'll have a better player emerge here soon.

 

I'm curious to see if Markarian will continue with KPaps as the DM. If he accepts the role and grows into it and if he improves his distribution, it could be massive for the NT. 

 

Here's an 11 I'd like to see tried in the next friendly (preferably before the Faroe Islands match):

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Karnezis-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Torosidis----------------------------------------------Papastathopoulos----------------------Manolas------------------------------------------------------Stafylidis

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------KPaps-----------------------Taxi-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

-----------------------------Fetfa-------------------------------------------Lazaros-------------------------------------------------------Kone----------------------------

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------Take your pick-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Admittedly, got a little lazy with the striker position; honestly I think it's an open competition at this point: Mitroglou, Athanasiadis, Aravidis, Samaras?? Call me crazy, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Samaras could do up top with a decent supporting cast; I know his form has been poor and he plays at a low level but for some reason I still think he may have something to offer this side yet.. besides shampoo tips...

Edited by AEK86
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Reaper    1,389

Quite an interesting post.

 

I think it is is completely logical for K. Paps to remain as the 6 - he is stronger and faster than Samaris who I prefer as an 8. The reasons are that he is massive in regaining possession and he can pass well with both feet. Having said this, I was disappointed with his negative passing last game for the NT. It is almost as if as soon as certain players put on an NT shirt, some beacon in their mind is activated that tells them to pass backwards every time they get the ball. When I watched K.Paps play as a 6 for Schalke in the Champion's League, his passing was hugely positive and very impressive.

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kbxk508    115

Kone appears to me to be an enigma. You either like him or you don't. I personally rate him.  he's aggressive, attacking style gives us something and I'm not sure we have too many better options in that position. Skill wise, he's scored some great goals, 

 

 

He did not play vs Romania, Finland and Northern Ireland, started vs Faroe Islands and came closest to score ((hit the bar), and vs Hungary had two headers which on another day may have gone in.   

Edited by kbxk508

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Dean97    154

Kone is a passionate player for i still think he can fill in karagounis shoes he is the type of player that has every thing. skill, strength, aggression, stamina, speed is not bad, aggression, shooting can work on, can defend (not bad for an attacking mid) composed dribbler and good in the air he is also very agile. like karagounis in my opinion. has experience in leadership

Edited by Dean97

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Dean97    154

i think Karelis should play in the next match he show a lot of pathos in some of the games. i know he inconsistent in finishing but i still think he along with samaras can provide that spark in attack and that goal we desperately need. we must try Bakakis in the friendly against poland cause in my opinion his playing style could benefit us when Torosidis hangs up his boots

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