plato-ny Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Listen to Helakis go crazy Even better, you can watch and listen http://www.sport-fm.gr/videos/1024779 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphoria Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I wasn't expecting that result when I woke up and checked Livescore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 we can beat any team on any day IF we just have confidence in our ability, and NO FEAR...gremany, brazil, etc. etc....NO FEAR...period...we come out flat because either we are too tentative, nervous, intimidated or whatever - which should not be an issue since the team is battle tested.... the biggest problem is this team has no clear identity...with otto they had a style, they knew it cold - and were CONFIDENT playing it...santos has them thinking they can be more offensive but they are clearly not comfortable playing with "an a good offense is the best defense" mentality...mids dont push up...so no body can feed the ball to forwards....and thats were the disconnect occurs... having said all that, big win....typical "cardiac kids: fashion when the chips are down, these guys play their best....cant these guys make it easy - for once !!!!!!! all the experts are out now: good article...sounds familiar http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writ...ghts/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can believe it. We beat Russia. Towards the end of the game I was blaming the mushrooms I had for lunch for all my hallucinations. But it is true guys. Right? I 'm not seeing things. Wow! :tup: :tup: :tup: :gr: :gr: :gr: :tup: :LOL: :LOL: @JOHNNY: Willie Hill is getting a visit from me tomorrow too :tup: Couldn't pass up those 4/1 odds, and EVS for Greece +1! Great bets! As for the game, well where do we start? Tzavellas and Sifakis made a huge difference, we looked solid, clever in possession. The only fault I can find is that we looked a little toothless from 15-40 mins and we were very wasteful in the 2nd half. We could have wrapped it up. In terms of individual performances, I'll use the British system of rating (6 is average). Sifakis, 7: Didn't have much to do but was commanding and his agility was superb. He covered plenty of their dangerous shots from distance with his agility. Head and shoulders above Chalkias. Torosidis, 7: Finally we started to see Torosidis show what he can do. His delivery is always world class but up until today it was the only good thing about his performances. Today though he kept Zhirkov honest and caused them numerous problems going forward. K.Papadopoulos, 7.5: Was caught out of position on one occasion in the first half when he was meters behind the rest of the defensive line, but apart from that he was a beast once more. How long before this kid goes to a super club? There is no limit for him. He would walk into the Arsenal team and could easily fit into a Real Madrid or Barcelona. He could easily be an understudy to Puyol for the next year or so before taking the reigns. He's 20, it's frightening as to how good he is already. Papastathopoulos, 7: I actually think his ability has dipped slightly in the last year or so. He has bulked up and lost some pace as a result. Zhirkov burned him in the first half and they nearly scored from it, but apart from that he was excellent. Tzavellas, 7: What a difference! What this kid is doing in the French 2nd division is beyond me. Impressive position and his left foot really is brilliant. His free kick would have been stunning. Katsouranis, 5: In the first half he gave the ball away in dangerous position 3 times, then once more at the start of the 2nd half when he had no pressure on him whatsoever. He didn't press effectively either, particularly in the first half where we had them running at our back four on the break. Still the weak link in the team. Maniatis, 7: Didn't cover as much ground as he usually does and his distribution wasn't perfect either, but his positioning was great to fill the voids and he kept Shirikov quiet. Karagounis, 7.5: At times he struggled with the pace of the game in the first half but once he got the goal he seemed to feed off the adrenaline. Was superb and should have won a penalty after that magnificent run. He was so effective because he was subbed off after 67 mins. That's how he should be used. He can't play 90 mins but still has plenty of natural ability. Salpingidis, 7: Was very good again. He is always a threat and such a clever player too. Excellent movement (the most underrated of all his attributes), clever deliveries, harries and works hard. He ran his socks off. Samaras, 8: Was the man of the match. He tormented Anyukov! When he's in this mood he is superb. His dribbling was perfect, he was clever with his ability to hold up the ball. He deserved a goal for his performance. Gekas, 6: Worked hard and held the ball up well but he couldn't get into the game. He has aged and I don't believe he has the attributes to offer anything to the style of this Greek team. When we play a high line and press high up the pitch we attack from the flanks, when we're defensive we try and break quickly or look for a direct ball up to the top. He simply doesn't fit anymore. SUBS: Holebas, 6: We lost a lot of our attacking threat when Holebas replaced Gekas because Samaras moved up front and Holebas wasn't troubling Anyukov at all! The Russian full back was able to get forward and cause more problems. He didn't make any mistakes as such, but was simply too limited as a player to offer anything to our left side. Ninis, 5.5: Ninis gave the ball away frequently and was lazy! He did not press, left spaces in behind and had they delivered towards the back post (from their right) the Russians could have caused us problems because of it. If anyone is wondering why this rating is so low if you get a chance to see the game again focus on Ninis, he was poor. Picked up too many lazy habits from Katsourani! Makos, 6.5: Makos isn't the most naturally talent of players but he is a good athlete and he was difficult to get around. He filled the holes well and put in a good shift. Fernando Santos, 6: From a tactical perspective I think he got lucky today. We started brightly but between 15-40 mins we seemed to run out of ideas and he looked perplexed. In the 2nd half I believe we could have won by more goals had he made the right changes. Samaras in particular, but Karagounis and Torosidis too, caused them a wealth of problems when running at them. Fetfatzidis would have torn them apart with his dribbling! Instead he brought on Ninis and played him on the wing, again! Ninis is not a winger! He doesn't do enough defensively and doesn't have the pace to threaten. So Santos left us vulnerable on the right without a threat. He also moved Samaras away from the left which was stupid considering that Samaras was killing Anyukov throughout the game. Holebas just didn't offer the same threat which allowed Anyukov to threaten down the right. He definitely gets brownie points for bringing Makos on for Karagounis. It added energy into the midfield before the captain began to tire, but it also protected him because Karagounis appeared to lose his head and could have been sent off. Overall Santos got a little lucky in my opinion. May he have plenty more luck all the way to the point he lifts the trophy on the podium! :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Congratulations!! I had a feeling that tonight we would see a change in attitude, work rate and fortune (Willie Hill will not be looking forward to my visit tomorrow Irlandos ;) ). GO JOHNNY!!! :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1000 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 halkias should go sell umbrellas on the beach...never come anywhere near a soccer statdium.. couldn't put it any better. :LOL: Listen to Helakis go crazy Even better, you can watch and listen http://www.sport-fm.gr/videos/1024779 :LOL: :LOL: :tup: :LOL: :D :nw: 'sfirikse yia to onoma tou 8eou' :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Listen to Helakis go crazy Even better, you can watch and listen http://www.sport-fm.gr/videos/1024779 Never realised I lost so much in the translation by watching British TV instead of Greek! :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 havent posted in acouple months, work was crazy but im glad to see everything picked up here :gr: acouple things about the match. i loved hearing things like "if we play kara and samaras we will get destroyed" "blah blah katsourani is awful" ktl ktl.. truth is, we change basically two, three positions and we look a different side. holebas and chalkias were the true weak links of the side. everything conceeded in this tournament has been through our right flank. we stick a solid tzavellas in there (who has an incredible left foot as well) and get rid of the liability that is chalkia. defending and pressuring is a team game, not just the responsbility of midfielders like maniati and katsourani, but salpigiidi, gekas, samaras and the rest of the players. if everyone does their job, we look a solid team. the problem with the first two matches is that we could not start off well. had we not conceeded early in the matches vs poland and czech, we would not have lost/tied those matches. pressuring doesnt always mean the midfielder has to run up and get next to his opponent. it also means positional awareness and team shape. our left flank was sured up, tzavellas held it well and samaras actually defended. kara was pulling into that side as well to help out. samaras was in great form and for me, was overall our most useful player. he did EXACTLY what he was suppose to do. if he wasnt such an "almost" player and did that all the time, he would be a star. another big change that has effected us is the pairing of sokrati and k pap. this was my prefered pairing from the start. i understand santos as avraam gave us some experience, but these two are our best centerback pairing. tall, great in the air, very good positioning and they add some stamina and youth to the backbone of the formation. k pap is also a real threat on set pieces. katsourani may have not distributed well or really showed up in the match, but neither did maniati. their job was to sit in the deep attacking spaces, to block off the checking in of russias attacking line. they sweeped up any loose balls and with the help of samara, we were able to turn the ball quickly up the pitch and hold up play, allowing us breathing room, time to regain our shape and attacking opportunities. katsourani and maniati did not look great, but they helped us keep our shape and did what they were suppose to do. i could also often see katsou help organize our young centre backs. you see, this is a team game, we proved that against russia. if everyone does their job and gives everything, anything is possible. the first two matches we were able to accomplish that in the second half and we looked a solid team. everyone says sit karagouni. yes he is old, yes he is not as quick or daring or offensive or defensive as he used to be, but he is the HEART AND SOUL of the team. there is no doubting that. he frustrates me like hell sometimes, but he also does what a true leader should do. bleed for the jersey and be a source of drive for his teammates. how he mustered the energy to beat three russian defenders and get tripped by another, is beyond me? that is true heart and passion and those are really two of the main characteristics of our game. he influences the players around him and lifts their spirits. some may call his goal a bit of fortune or gift, but too me it was overdue. he takes so much slack from the media, but always gives everything he has for the team and he has been rewarded appropriately. too bad for the AWFUL injustice of the "dive" that he would have buried. germans next, in my opinion, the best side so far in this tournament. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE! THIS IS WHY I LOVE EURO!! :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 good post PAO..lots of very correct statements - "bleed for the jersey"....love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 pao123 welcome back mate, good to have you back. We will have to strongly disagree with eachother. Katsouranis bleeding for the jersey? I will accept that about Karagounis but Katsouranis? He is the laziest player in the entire squad. I won't lie, I didn't notice him telling the younger defenders where to stand but it's great that you noticed it. However, so what? A coach should be doing that from the sideline. If he wants to be Santos' number 2 and do that on the side line I'd say fair enough. The fact of the matter is he consistently gave the ball away cheaply in dangerous positions and didn't press or track back. He did one thing that was positive in the entire game, he made a clearance after Zhirkov burned Sokratis and crossed low into the box. Katsouranis got lucky though because he was too lazy to sprint to track the runner and Zhirkov's cut back cross was inaccurate. Had it been accurate we'd have gone 1-0 down. Here are the highlights. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18474299 Start watching from 39 seconds. You will see Maniatis unable to make a challenge and Arshavin will break away. A number of Greek players are out of position here, Tzavellas should not be so high up the pitch when we have the ball on the right hand side and the other full back, Torosidis, is up too. Salpi should also be a bit further back because Toro has lapped him. Nonetheless the player who is most at fault is Katsouranis. Both he and Maniatis are holding midfielders. If we have to take risks then 1 will go and the other MUST hold, sitting just in front of the defence. Look at the distance between him (the last midfielder) and the defence, it's approximately 30 yards. Pause it at 42 seconds to see this distance. Salpi quickly realises that he's out of position and sprints like he's running for gold at the Olympics to recover. What's Katsourani doing? He's jogging back. Now pause it again at 49 seconds. If Zhirkov plays a square pass Kerzhakov has a tap in and we are out of the European Championships. Katsouranis should have sprinted to be 5 yards further back (goal side of Kerzhakov) to intercept any potential square pass. Pause it again on 50 seconds to see just how dangerous this ended up. On 51 seconds he clears because Zhirkov's pass was poor. In other words his one contribution to the game came out of sheer luck because the reality is that he made a mistake and could have cost us the match. Mate the most important thing in football is what you do without the ball, it is also the part of the game that very few people concentrate on. If you sit and watch Katsouranis (and nobody else) for 90 mins you will realise just how poor he has become. He is a liability and against a swift counter attacking German team we cannot afford to have both full backs up the pitch at the same time, and/or both holding midfielders up the pitch and miles away from the back line. Ozil & co. will tear us apart. We had a great result against the Russians but 1 game does not change the fact that we still have some huge limitations and Katsouranis is at the heart of many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 euro !!! and the surgically precise analysis...awesome...but, here is the reality of the situation. this type of dissection will expose many players for not being in the perfect spot at the right time. your pointing out salpi hustling back vs. kats jogging says it all. agreed. i am indifferent to kats, so i am not defending him. rather if ur gonna hammer him, then you must provide an alternative because now we face the best team in this competition and, losing kara is HUGE in my book, just from a leadership standpoint. We can argue about how important or not important that is on the pitch - i think it is extremely important and now one is going to change my mind about that because the collective consciousness of the team (including on the field duties and responsibilities) is held together by their leader....we've all seen how easily the wheels can come off (check game) So losing kara in my opinion just knocked down our chances of winning that game at least 25%, if not more. Why? because the only way we can win that game is by playing our A plus game (and that may not even be enough) that means going in there confident, fearless, unafraid to knock gomez on his ass, unafraid to rough up scweinsteiger, etc. , playing positioning correctly, etc. Germany needs to know they are stepping on to the pitch against a tough, determined, fearless squad...in other words - they need to respect us - not just for lip service in the papers - but respect us.....and we NEED our LEADER to set that tone and give everyone the courage to play their game confidently and convincingly so WE can impose OUR will on the game and set the tone.... so how does all this relate? well, the only guy with the experience and who is battle tested is kats....like it or not....so if he is not teh answer, who can you put in his place for this game on Friday that can do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 :gr: :box: :gr: :box: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 EURO!! we are back battling again, nothing has changed :D :D in all seriousness tho, I do not disagree with your comments but i also have to agree with manga as well. just as you can point of moments that highlight his poor qualities, I can highlight moments that prove his usefulness in that match. on multple occasions I saw him sweeping up loose balls and putting in successful tackles right above the box. i can go back to those plays and give you the minute marks, but ive already watched the match twice and dont want to go through it again :D to me, last match, kats was just as useful as maniati. both players played their roles and played them well, however i have to agree with you in regards to kats' lack of hustle and relatively poor distribution. but i also have to point out that his role was to sit deep and win those loose balls, which he performed rather well. to be honest, I thought maniatis distribution was poorer than kats'. BUT kats is a natural midfielder and has to help more in that department. i dont have a problem with our midfielders booting the ball under pressure, but i do have a problem when i see kats crushing the ball when he has an easier and more useful outlet pass that he does not make. players like kats are a bit of a mystery. he is getting into an advanced age and does not have the legs that he did when he was considered a world class midfielder. he needs to learn to adapt his game to match his physical capabilities. sort of like a rio fernand, giggs situation. they lost their pace and touch a bit bc of age, but remain world class because they were able to adapt their game accordingly (working on positioning, tactics, smarts and leadership) obviously i am not comparing these players to katsourani, but that is the stage that he currently is in, in his career. that in NO WAY excuses his laziness, but if we expect to see the katsourani of old, forget about it, he isnot the same player. sometimes it is important to have just as much patience with an older player, as a youngster. manga is right tho. i dont think we have the quality in the midfield to replace katsourani. who will play that role? who has the necessary experience? mako? fotaki? i trust them both LESS than i trust kats. if we had another centre back i would argue pushing k pap a bit more forward to protect our back line, but we are stuck with what we have in the back. fotaki will now fill in for kara and then all we are left with is makos. i too would like to see a different face in there eventually, but with our current roster and what we have available, i unfortuantely believe kats is the right option. and no, when i was saying "bleed for the jersey" i was only refering to karagouni, not katsourani!!! :gr: :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 we can beat any team on any day IF we just have confidence in our ability, and NO FEAR...gremany, brazil, etc. etc....NO FEAR...period...we come out flat because either we are too tentative, nervous, intimidated or whatever - which should not be an issue since the team is battle tested.... the biggest problem is this team has no clear identity...with otto they had a style, they knew it cold - and were CONFIDENT playing it...santos has them thinking they can be more offensive but they are clearly not comfortable playing with "an a good offense is the best defense" mentality...mids dont push up...so no body can feed the ball to forwards....and thats were the disconnect occurs... having said all that, big win....typical "cardiac kids: fashion when the chips are down, these guys play their best....cant these guys make it easy - for once !!!!!!! all the experts are out now: good article...sounds familiar http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writ...ghts/index.html I agree they seem to lack identity...but the reason they're not comfortable pushing forward is because he just doesn't play the right combination of players. Kara is NOT a creative attacker, so you can't expect anything like that from him. If you were to play Ninis, Fetfa and Fortounis what do you think would happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 clove, wazzzup....i think euro would be much better answering that question - he knows his shti, especially when it comes to individual attributes of each player.....but ill take a crack at your question. At this point of their careers I think putting them all in at the same time would be disastrous. Against a team like Germany especially they would be undressed...As we all have discussed, off the ball tactics, positioning, attacking spaces and smart distribution is the key...that is collective benaviour where the team meshes and each player compliments and builds on the strength of the other.....chemistry i guess u can call it.....dont think they have it with the rest of the guys, and although there may be some "individual" flashes of brilliance, i cant see and collective action of any significance. I say this because i was at the greece ecuador game where santos played a ounger lineup and u could see right away the difference in how the team moved up and down the field... if u could infuse one or two offensive minded guys in the middle that could be covered in the back if they were caught out of position (like gianakopoulos pushing hard because he knew kapsis/fyssas/dellas etc were behind him) then you could commit some offensive pressure and liekwise feed the gys up front with more meaningful opportunities.... but again, u must have an IDENTITY and play it with confidence to impose it on the other team....u just cant function when you have defensive minded - defend first players trying to sync up with offense first players...no continuity...... thats my initial thought on your question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/euro-underdog...34421--sow.html made this point the day we beat russia....and, http://sports.yahoo.com/news/euro-greece-f...22254--sow.html this one made real angry....and u wonder - "people are the problem, and yet people can be the solution"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 From AFP: Russian supremo resigns after Euro fiasco The overall head of football in Russia on Monday resigned after the national team failed to make the knock-out stages of Euro 2012 with a hugely disappointing performance. "I would like to apologise to the fans for this result," Russian Football Union president Sergei Fursenko told Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin said. "I have taken a difficult decision -- to step down as head of the Russian Football Union," he added. Russia were knocked out of the Euro 2012 after a defeat by Greece, a below-par performance that exposed deep-rooted problems in the Russian game despite the vast sums of money being ploughed into the sport. Read story It looks like somebody is paying the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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