Lazarus Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Gekas: I will be back if things change "Nothing has changed after Rehhagel, and that is why I stuck with my decision. If some things do change, then, I am in a position to help the National Team again." -- Read interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Gekas: I will be back if things change "Nothing has changed after Rehhagel, and that is why I stuck with my decision. If some things do change, then, I am in a position to help the National Team again." He also said he's sure other players will also return if there are changes. I wonder if that includes Kyrgiakos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Drakos i know Fetfa is in the u21s, it was a typing error to say u19. That's why i said he's on the bench despite the fact that Ninis (men's NT) and Pliatsikas (injured) aren't available. My point still stands though, the kid is on the bench for the u21s so saying he's the answer to the NT's problems might be a bit premature. I won't be adament though because no i did not see him against Iraklis. I did see him against Standard last season though and I have seen him in their pre-season friendlies. From what i've seen he's neat on the ball but not spectacular. That's a problem because doesn't have any physical attributes. He isn't particularly fast and he isn't particularly strong either. That can be a problem in the modern game as we frequently see with Ninis getting bullied, so small players that aren't fast have to have exceptional skill. I've just found this highlight video of him on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwuRlkSXfbU If you actually watch him against Atromitos (ignore the youth games, you can't judge a player from that) then you're left asking yourself. What does he actually do? He's neat in possession. He turns on the ball well which is a skill Xavi has mastered. It basically makes it very difficult for you to get dispossesed because your body is always between the opponent and the ball. But what does he do in this video which would contribute to a team winning a game? He tries to go on positive runs, then turns back and plays a simple pass because he doesn't have blistering dribbling skills. His passes are pretty basic, they aren't exactly defence splitting, etc. So why would he be a better option than anyone in the team now? Clearly according to Georgiadis (for those that might not know he's the u21 manager) he isn't even a first option for them. Have to be careful because it's a fine line between rating a player and giving him a chance, and blowing his ability out of proportion and ruining him. Mangas21 I totally agree with your analysis of Otto's ability to squash egos. Unfortunately I believe he only managed that because of what he achieved. So unless we got a big name in i can imagine the players' egos always dominating. I mean check this out, rumours are that some of the retirements have been brought about because of a poor atmosphere in the dressing room. What's causing it? Katsouranis is apparently a favourite of Santos http://www.sportdog.gr/v3/article.aspx?id=145207 i agree its premature, but in my mind, players can qualify for senior football through their clubs. If a player is breaking through the lineup with so many signings, imported players for a higher level club at a young age he really must have something worthwhile, otherwise it would not happen. - the thing is, on OSFP's first league game: -He was Olympiakos top player He played full 90 mins -- meaning that the coach put him into his starting plans. He may be a very young player, but if he's already breaking into huge roles, theres no point waiting. The players age is irrelevant if he's doing something most senior level players cant. If Fetfatzidis is somehow regularly a OSFP starter and performer, than he's good enough to make the ethniki, especially over players that dont start for their clubs or perform great. If he becomes a fully established OSFP player this season then he should be in the ethniki by March. If not, we can wait. But its not like we have any special creative midfielders as depth. We've got Ninis, Karagkounis and now Kone. Kone isn't good enough to play regular at OSFP, if Fetfatzidis is, then put him instead. as for Giannis Papadopoulos, I know your a fan, but accept that he's about to become a lost cause, as he'll play nothign but bench with all the new players at OSFP. He wont be much, or be ready unless he can play regularly. Its a shame OSFP don't let him go to Panionios or Xanthi etc, and even more of a mystery why those mid level teams don't seem to want Greek youth on loan. Likewise for Dimoutsos....And Soiledis, is at OFI.....B2.......i just have trouble beleiveing that NO Superleague team will take these players into their squads. Its ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 the timing of all theses defections is an indictment on Santos....period....if they respected him, they would not act this way...this was brewing for a long time, way before Santos...so why now? they dont give a fukc about the team...they are in the middle of a qualifying run, and they want "change"? and are nothing but a devicsive, destrucctive force.....and they dont even have the ballllls to say what the real reasons are...just cryptic nonsense.....are u kidding me? gekas - aside from one good season - has always been bitchin about one thing or another..he is using the NT to try and resurrect his career... but.... Kyriagos - did not need that...he has a secure postion on the NT and with Liverpool - so his defection is for different reasons... Tzorvas is just a twit - totally selfish " i play or I walk" attitude... so no common theme here...makes no sense... i say fcuk them all...bring up the youth, let them take their lumps and eventually they will be just as competitive.. my dad owned real estate in ny - he NEVER signed a lease with anyone...why? he use to tell me "if they dont wanna be here, i dont want them here, they can go - a piece of paper wont make them good tenants if they dont want to be here" same with these clowns...let em go and eat s%$#!...the inmates csannot run the asylum...the worst thin that can happen is they take these guys back - then the coaching staff has no power or authority....BIG MISTAKE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 drak, its simple....the greek powers that be may be "educated" in a formal sense - but if you are a "protectionist" before the degree u r the same, or worse, after the degree..... these guys are not of a "global" cooperative/collaborative mindset...they do it in all aspects of business - soccer is no different.....greece has ALWAYS been a "taker" in the EU..not a giver....and prior to that they were NEVER a willing participant in global affairs...the walls were always up... so, a simple decision not to allow youth on loan is a function and direct result of far removed macro policies - what you are able to see in the press and other media is the ripple effect of anti-competitive, insecure, backward thinking based decisions... the system is broken.....thats why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 manga, dont be consumed with what the media writes...i doubt that seitaridis and tzorva really considered retiring..its all media hype, thats what they do...all this talk about katsourani this and that, who is thinking about retiring KTL is all a bunch of trash talk created by the media bc they need new topics to write about... i would take everything you read (unless its an OFFICIAL announcement) with a grain of salt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 pao, i hear ya....wouldn't be the first time the press made things up, right? lol my comments were more geared towards the way the system ruins domestic talent...as far the crybabies, real or imagined, anyone who plays for the NT should leave their ego at the door....if not, then fukc ' em.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Drakos i totally agree, if Fetfa proves himself at Olympiakos, by all means give him a chance. But we need time to see him in an Olympiakos shirt. There are already many that are labelling him as a super star when in reality he's just a "good" young player. He's not special. Ninis was much better last year (when he was 19). I wouldn't say i'm a big fan of G.Papadopoulos. I actually think he's quite limited but like you say he should at least be getting a chance at Panionios. I am a big fan of Dimoutsos though and I really do see him as a wasted talent. Pao123, for once i believe the media stories about Seitaridis and Tzorvas. I'm sure they hinted at retiring. Whether there was any conviction in the claim, that is to say, whether it was just a tactic in bringing attention to the situation, well that's a different story. I firmly believe that Katsouranis is an arrogant guy and I believe it's evident from his lazy performances. It's also common knowledge that he's very close to Santos from their Benfica days. All in all i'm not surprised that these issues have occured. It's all about a clash of egos and ultimately the players' lack of respect for the national team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 the timing of all theses defections is an indictment on Santos....period....if they respected him, they would not act this way...this was brewing for a long time, way before Santos...so why now? they dont give a fukc about the team...they are in the middle of a qualifying run, and they want "change"? and are nothing but a devicsive, destrucctive force.....and they dont even have the ballllls to say what the real reasons are...just cryptic nonsense.....are u kidding me? gekas - aside from one good season - has always been bitchin about one thing or another..he is using the NT to try and resurrect his career... but.... Kyriagos - did not need that...he has a secure postion on the NT and with Liverpool - so his defection is for different reasons... Tzorvas is just a twit - totally selfish " i play or I walk" attitude... so no common theme here...makes no sense... i say fcuk them all...bring up the youth, let them take their lumps and eventually they will be just as competitive.. my dad owned real estate in ny - he NEVER signed a lease with anyone...why? he use to tell me "if they dont wanna be here, i dont want them here, they can go - a piece of paper wont make them good tenants if they dont want to be here" same with these clowns...let em go and eat s%$#!...the inmates csannot run the asylum...the worst thin that can happen is they take these guys back - then the coaching staff has no power or authority....BIG MISTAKE. Its interesting you're criticizing the players when you don't even know whats really going on...ever stop to think that there is corruption in Greek sports? I normally don't like it either when football players are cryptic in their interviews but in this case Gekas might be right to hold back some of his comments...I understand Amanatidis said some similar things recently. I think a lot of s hit will be released eventually. A lot of fans were finally getting suspicious of the NT and Otto. Rightfully so. The scene has looked pretty twisted for the last several years now. "F u ck 'em all and bring up the youth" won't solve anything I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Clover22 the players that we are talking about here are the ones that had reserved startiner spots when Otto was here and now that they dont have the same treatment as before are coming out after 1 friendly and 2 official games .I dont know all the details as of yet but some of the things that i have heard are in a polite way,unrealistic.When you have a player like Ballack who in order to get a spot in his NT,he has been asked to work hard when he is 32 years old and with a great career behind him,to have Gekkas-Tzorvas-Katsouranis-Kurgiakos-Amanitidis play the crying babies or the primantonas in my eyes is just unexaptable.NT is nobodies prive club and they need to clean house and be just normal.It looks like nobody knows,they try to cover up things and nobody is clean so i am TOTALY for get rid of the idiots and bring the young now.Guys who will respect the jersey and understand what and who they represent when they play for our NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 clove, until i see proof otherwise, this is my judgment and i i stand by my comments....nobody will ever really know whats REALLY going....i mean heck, all of us here watch the same game and post comments afterwards like we were all watching a different game......dont u find the timing, the participants and the number of defectors odd? a mass exodus....why? can u explain that? kyriagos confuses me though....secure spot, career goin well yet he was the first to bolt....maybe he left for the right reasons, who knows? look if u dont feel like u can physically handle the load and u have loyalty to the team thats payin you for your best effort, then thats understandable...(if thats the real reason) if you wantt to spend more time on personal things (business family) sure... its an honor to wear your countrys shirt...us mortals see it differently than theses guys..they are paid to play, its their livelyhood and they see it in ways we can never really understand... but...........proceeding on the premise that their egos are running the show - fukc'em...theses guys are babied waaaay too much and at some point teh NT has to take a stand...check ur ego at teh door and play because of pride, untiy and country...or step aside and let someone play for whom theses pure and simple principles actually mean something..... is this too idealistic? am i being unrealistic in this day and age of money, greed and selfish thinking? i would hate to think so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Well it IS about pride and playing for the shirt and all that but when there's corruption don't you think it makes it more difficult for the players? I don't know why you choose to look at it as an ego problem with these individuals when you know its a twisted organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 clove i see your point...we are all just guessing...but the sequence of events, the difference in players stature, the timing lead me to my conclusion...gekas/tzorvas/seit - three guys whose roles have been curtailed decide to leave and/or start chirping about leaving....where was that chirping when they were playing regularly? and further, why did they even accept the invitation in the first place, especially if it is a well establsihed fact that the system is corrupt and twisted? if you are a "principled" individual - like all theses guys would want us to believe - then decline to play at all....gekas was all smiles scoring 3 goals against latvia...you think he was thinking about "corruption then?".... then you have a guy like amanatidis - speaking from the grave - bringing up old news about his NT experience...dood, your old news !!! stay in Gemany and steal a few euros before you knee blows out again and shut the fk up..... its always been a greek attribute to simply leave as a way to deal with things....thats the mentality, thats the way the synapses fire...its a society based on mutual suspicion and most look at their own personal circumstances through that prism...its not bad or good, it just is.......so knowing that, and knowing the system is twisted, you either enable & perpetuate that by making excuses and trying to justify certain behaviours, thereby making it even more twisted or u take a stand and say "fck you" check your ego at the door and play for the right reasons or we will find someone who will....to break the hardened cement that is the ego issues you need to do something equally as drastic.... im telling you the day men started dancing tsiftelia, the mangia was lost alltogether....they should ban that in greece all together - you dance zeibekiko or tsamiko, or sit down and let the women dance that tsiftetlia nonsense....jajajaaja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 ha ha manga21. I am with you on the tsiftendelia. What's up with that? I don't follow the NT happenings, but I read the headlines and it doesn't look like anyone gives a hoot about that team. Some of us who are a bit older remember that this was the permanent state of things before Rehagel, so somehow it doesn't seem like a big deal. It's interesting because the Euro04 success should get every player to understand that NT success is actually good for their own career (even if they don't want to think of all the romantic reasons). It was the NT success that really opened up foreign markets to them. Even with the Bosman decision, European teams shied away from Greek players until the NT showed that with proper discipline they can excel. The player values increased. I blame partly the players and partly the NT management for allowing this kind of circus to persist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 clove i see your point...we are all just guessing...but the sequence of events, the difference in players stature, the timing lead me to my conclusion...gekas/tzorvas/seit - three guys whose roles have been curtailed decide to leave and/or start chirping about leaving....where was that chirping when they were playing regularly? and further, why did they even accept the invitation in the first place, especially if it is a well establsihed fact that the system is corrupt and twisted? if you are a "principled" individual - like all theses guys would want us to believe - then decline to play at all....gekas was all smiles scoring 3 goals against latvia...you think he was thinking about "corruption then?".... then you have a guy like amanatidis - speaking from the grave - bringing up old news about his NT experience...dood, your old news !!! stay in Gemany and steal a few euros before you knee blows out again and shut the fk up..... its always been a greek attribute to simply leave as a way to deal with things....thats the mentality, thats the way the synapses fire...its a society based on mutual suspicion and most look at their own personal circumstances through that prism...its not bad or good, it just is.......so knowing that, and knowing the system is twisted, you either enable & perpetuate that by making excuses and trying to justify certain behaviours, thereby making it even more twisted or u take a stand and say "fck you" check your ego at the door and play for the right reasons or we will find someone who will....to break the hardened cement that is the ego issues you need to do something equally as drastic.... im telling you the day men started dancing tsiftelia, the mangia was lost alltogether....they should ban that in greece all together - you dance zeibekiko or tsamiko, or sit down and let the women dance that tsiftetlia nonsense....jajajaaja :tup: Nice I'm with the tsamiko! By the way I heard Kats may also be leaving! Not that its a bad thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcp Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 manga, great post on all counts but I'll take exception with your zeimbekiko comment. How is mangia synonymous with a Turkish dance? Zeimbekides were Turkish partisans, as far as I know my history, and that was their dedicated dance so unless they took it from us we Greeks shouldn't be using it to measure our Hellenic mangia. Am I wrong in my understanding? BTW, after what the Turks did at their only world cup, and now with their basketball silver I think they constantly display more heart and mangia than we ever do, sadly I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 manga, great post on all counts but I'll take exception with your zeimbekiko comment. How is mangia synonymous with a Turkish dance? Zeimbekides were Turkish partisans, as far as I know my history, and that was their dedicated dance so unless they took it from us we Greeks shouldn't be using it to measure our Hellenic mangia. Am I wrong in my understanding? BTW, after what the Turks did at their only world cup, and now with their basketball silver I think they constantly display more heart and mangia than we ever do, sadly I say. They display more TURKISH S HIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcp Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Clover, above you said "Well it IS about pride and playing for the shirt and all that....." So it seems to me that since the Turks fall back to patriotic pride much more so than we do you ought to recognize it and respect them for it so, pou kolaei to "They display more TURKISH S HIT. "???? :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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