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pao123

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dood, even if it was MY HOOK shot, it cant top that story.....ueffff.....jajajajajaja

when you've been there, lived it in some way, shape or form, u acquire a sensibility that gives you more insights as to what's going on...

let me tell ya thats impressive my friend, but know you know what otto means when he says "in soccer you never know".........when the ball does not want to go in, it does not want to go in.......i've used this excuse for myself waaaaaaay more times than i care to admit....jajajajaj

and regarding haristeas, i respect that guy alot...he is what he is, but u can never say he does not bust his assssss every minute he is on the field....u cant knock a guys skills/quants....but u can knock a lack of effort...no excuse for that....

No way! That hook shot story is unbeatable! It's legendary! I wish i was there for it! :LOL: Please tell me you guys celebrated it like mad!

To be honest I think you're semi-right about Haristeas. Up until Euro 2008 I'd say yes, you're totally right he'd always bust his ass for the team. That's why I always had/have great respect for players like Haristeas, Patsa and Vintra. It's not their fault they're limited, they always give everything. In the last couple of years he seems to have fallen into the same category as some of the other bums that I always rag on. I give stick to players like Samaras, Mitroglou, Seitaridis, Katsouranis, etc, when they are lazy. They have great talent and yet too often they stroll around as if they are playing with the kids in the garden! Like most Greeks i have all the matches from Euro 2004 recorded. I've seen each game many times and trust me the work rate of Basinas, Seitaridis, Katsouranis, etc, cannot even be compared to their work rate now. They ran twice as much. Santos needs to re-motivate those that have lost their hunger or get rid of them.

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here is another tidbit...the only thing we won that day was the opening tip off....and as a result of that, that was our first shot !!!! we actually were in the lead 2-0 !!!! now that's pathetic on so many levels, not the least of which is "do you think that maybe, juuuuust maaaaby, we could have set up for a better, higher percentage shot than a freaking hook shot from the corner on our first possession?" that in itself tells you just how clueless we were....ah, the good ole days..

anyway, rr: Haristea & company - what you describe is the prevailing (though slowly changing) Greek way....that's where leadership comes in, someone that all the other guys respect and fear a little bit, who they can look to for guidance, motivation, etc...Zagoraki being the obvious reference..they dont have anyone like that...you know as well as i there are passive personality types who are driven externally and need to be led, and there are leaders who naturally rise among their peers and are driven internally...just genetically driven personality traits, way more steerers than pushers......

but then you see a team like Germany who loses their obvious leader in Ballack, and yet still has the "collective resolve" and sense of purpose to go on and accomplish big things....its this sense of purpose and resolve in the face of adversity & criticism that otto managed to create which made up for lack of quant skills....and even to the end at SA, we managed a win and a respectable showing with Argemtina...this for me is the ultimate arbiter of otto success, that in spite o f ALLL the flaws in his approach, he still managed to keep the team respectable.....and i have a hunch that Santos may not value this qualitative aspect enough to stress it.....rather he may be enamored with skills that he sees through rose colored glasses and his ego driven desire to "do it his way"...becuase you know there is no way he wants to be in otto's shadow.....

the greek hiearchy of motivation, notwithstanding a few guys that bust it regardless of the circumstances like Gekas for instance, its - go out make aname for yourself, get teh big bucks and then drive sports cars and bang russian broads....not a bad days work actually - jajajajja - but you know what i mean, ala seitaridis who is the poster child for that sort of thing (in my from-a-distance observation) so, if thats the motivtional chain of events, then yes, get teh younger in here than need to make that name for themselves, and sprinkle in a few vets to balance the overly enthusiastic with the seasoned and consistent.........

again, lets see how santos approaches what i really think is a very, very tricky situation and, in my humble opinion, a no win situation for him.....

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here is another tidbit...the only thing we won that day was the opening tip off....and as a result of that, that was our first shot !!!! we actually were in the lead 2-0 !!!! now that's pathetic on so many levels, not the least of which is "do you think that maybe, juuuuust maaaaby, we could have set up for a better, higher percentage shot than a freaking hook shot from the corner on our first possession?" that in itself tells you just how clueless we were....ah, the good ole days..

anyway, rr: Haristea & company - what you describe is the prevailing (though slowly changing) Greek way....that's where leadership comes in, someone that all the other guys respect and fear a little bit, who they can look to for guidance, motivation, etc...Zagoraki being the obvious reference..they dont have anyone like that...you know as well as i there are passive personality types who are driven externally and need to be led, and there are leaders who naturally rise among their peers and are driven internally...just genetically driven personality traits, way more steerers than pushers......

but then you see a team like Germany who loses their obvious leader in Ballack, and yet still has the "collective resolve" and sense of purpose to go on and accomplish big things....its this sense of purpose and resolve in the face of adversity & criticism that otto managed to create which made up for lack of quant skills....and even to the end at SA, we managed a win and a respectable showing with Argemtina...this for me is the ultimate arbiter of otto success, that in spite o f ALLL the flaws in his approach, he still managed to keep the team respectable.....and i have a hunch that Santos may not value this qualitative aspect enough to stress it.....rather he may be enamored with skills that he sees through rose colored glasses and his ego driven desire to "do it his way"...becuase you know there is no way he wants to be in otto's shadow.....

the greek hiearchy of motivation, notwithstanding a few guys that bust it regardless of the circumstances like Gekas for instance, its - go out make aname for yourself, get teh big bucks and then drive sports cars and bang russian broads....not a bad days work actually - jajajajja - but you know what i mean, ala seitaridis who is the poster child for that sort of thing (in my from-a-distance observation) so, if thats the motivtional chain of events, then yes, get teh younger in here than need to make that name for themselves, and sprinkle in a few vets to balance the overly enthusiastic with the seasoned and consistent.........

again, lets see how santos approaches what i really think is a very, very tricky situation and, in my humble opinion, a no win situation for him.....

:LOL: :LOL: great story :tup:

As for your analysis about leadership and the Greek mentality, I totally agree. Although I think there are 2 leaders within the camp. 2 players that everyone looks up to. Karagounis and Katsouranis. Unfortunately they are both have the limitations that you speak of and that flows through the team. Karagounis is a passionate fighter on the field, he moans and causes ripples when he's criticised. Katsouranis on the other hand is a punk (except for Seitaridis who is a scumbag, i'd love to get him a choke-hold) he is the worst in the squad for having a loser mentality. He has so much talent and yet he's lazy and strolls around like he's achieved everything he's wanted to and now is just going through the motions and collecting a pay packet.

So I also believe we need new "leaders". Kyrgiakos would have been an ideal captain, now he's gone it's a tough selection. Do you go for a young, hungry, but inexperienced guy like Papastathopoulos? He's a winner but how will the old guard react if that happens? Taking that into consideration do you keep the current leaders and try to motivate them? That might not be possible if they have lost their hunger.

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either way you slice it, santos has an unenviable task ahead of him....a far as leaders, they emerge...you dont annoint someone who is not that kind of personality regardless of talent....

santos choices will shape greek international football for the next several years at least. the only thing that gives me some comfort is that he has been in greece for a while and understands the way things work there....thats a huge plus.

i would opt for youth with a few vets sprinkled in...i would opt for a tight, cohesive, unified, mentally tough team rather than a collection of the "most talented" players all on the same field...

small teams that are tight, unified and chesive can accomplish much more than a collection of talented players that dont function well as a unti...just look at england and a few other SA examples....

as i mentioned...its a no win for him...for him to be successful he needs to produce BETTER results than otto....dont think he will, because cracking the top 10 is much harder than going from 65th in the world to say 15th.....once you get to that level, the improvements are harder to make...so i see only one way for him to go, and thats down....

of course, i hope i am wrong. but i ve seen enough of this set of circumstances in other contexts......its not even based on the limitations presented by the "greek" thing and all its permutations - which is always a hurdle for lasting improvements in their soccer...its more a universal "natural order of things".....anyone thrust into this situation is set up to fail - its could be most any nation, not just greece...

but anyway, ill be rooting as always but also watching very closely for small leaks in the dyke....

very curious to see how this unfolds....

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I was travelling for a few weeks and I'm looking for information but I can't find it on the net. Can anyone answer these questions?

1-I thought Kyrgiakos and Amanatidis announced retirements from the national team. Both huge losses in my opinion. Amanatidis I read had to do with selection issues on players that shouldn't be there. Kyrgiakos?

2-Why did Sifakis start and not Tzorvas?

3-I read the formation was 4-4-2, who played where?

4-Who was left off the team because of injury?

5-Who was left off the team because he is no longer considered part of the team?

6-I think it is time for Katsouranis and Karagounis to go bye bye. Thuoghts?

Thanks folks

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