End of an ERA

[Dava-G]

Yesterday, Otto's last match, I realized he was right, all along.

Alot of Greeks will realize the same thing once the new coach decides to play "attractive football" with the limited resources that we have in Greece. Greeks also need a father figure that will tell them to "shut up" and treat them like over paid children. Greeks do not need a coach who will be their friend.

I see us painfully trying to be Argentina or something else and failing miserably.

I see a cry to go back and get Otto in the middle of qualification...

good post Drakos

[thrylos]

I hope we don't try and play offensive soccer against powerhouse teams....

What I hope is that the players are faster, stronger and more complete and allow them to attack more often as a unit as opposed to 1 forward vs 3 defenders all the time.

The father figure comment is BANG ON....

[andrew_g]

Yesterday, Otto's last match, I realized he was right, all along.

Alot of Greeks will realize the same thing once the new coach decides to play "attractive football" with the limited resources that we have in Greece. Greeks also need a father figure that will tell them to "shut up" and treat them like over paid children. Greeks do not need a coach who will be their friend.

I see us painfully trying to be Argentina or something else and failing miserably.

I see a cry to go back and get Otto in the middle of qualification...

good post Drakos

Guys, I have to differ a bit. Otto didn't decide to play the game he played in 2004, he didn't play anti-football or negative soccer or even catenaccio. If you look at the stats for 2004, Greece against great teams kept possesion and did not turn it over this easily and that's because we had a midfield.

Otto became stubborn and after being tagged as a coach who plays negative soccer decided that he'd give negative soccer a try so that if he suceeded he'd say, "see you people were all wrong."

Had we played the with the same tactics we did against Argentina that we played against Portugal, we would have won.

[mangas21]

its a simple equation:

the new coach should still focus on defense, but allow a system that lets teh players push up higher so thet can score.....IF THE OTHER TEAM IS NOT AFRAID OF YOUR OFFENSE THEY WILL SEND MORE PLAYERS DEEPER INTO YOUR ZONE.

so being considered "dangerous" on offense, serves multiple purposes....it does not mean we abandonne the strong, physical quality that is the hall mark of greek football, nor does it mean we will try to be brazil.....it only means that we need to find the same type of team like we had in04....

strong defense, good mids, and some better skills....THAT STARTS WITH APPROPRIATE PLAYER SELECTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ottto, like any coach, made several assumptions about 1. greek talent and skills sets 2. what players would play in a way that reflected his opinion about the best chance to win.

from there he makes his selections......

i prefer someone to coach who will keep the same basic tactics, but modify them a bit to address the shortcoming otto had....

[thrylos]

You have to agree that Otto brought unity......something the national team always lacked.

We could not have played against Argentina the way we did against Portugal, because there are different style players on this team. Fyssas and Giourkas were classic wing backs. Stelios was thr prototypical winger/outside midfielder. Zagorakis and Basinas controlled the midfield.

WE didn't have these type of players.

On another note,

[Genome]

Not Santos.. Please..

The guy is a failure... dont over look his semi-success at PAOK and AEK..

He is s**** and was even sacked by Benfica at one stage

Sacked by Benfica after exactly one game (a draw btw), so I don't think that means anything.

[HellasHab]

Wouldn't it be embaressing as a player if your coach says things like, "I don't have players like Messi, and Kaka, that's why we can't play entertaining soccer." Alketas Panagoulias and Vassilis Daniil used to say the same things when they were coaching the national team (Daniil when he coached PAO in the '80s was more like Rehhagel was in 2004 though).

This is what coaches who are not very good do, to deflect the attention away from them- shift the focus to the players and make it appear as though they are to blame for the lousy performance. THIS is the Otto that you have all being praising, not much of a coach IMO. :tdown:

When the team won the euro he was right there in the limelight to bask in the glory but now that the team was eliminated and he is being criticized left, right and centre, he doesn't even accompany the team back home but instead takes the cheap way out by 'resigning' and staying behind for a holiday. I think this clearly shows what kind of a 'coach' this guy really is- an over the hill has been that runs away at the first sign of trouble and blames his players instead of accepting responsibility for himself.

Good Riddance Germane!! :tdown:

[andrew_g]

We could not have played against Argentina the way we did against Portugal, because there are different style players on this team. Fyssas and Giourkas were classic wing backs. Stelios was thr prototypical winger/outside midfielder. Zagorakis and Basinas controlled the midfield.

WE didn't have these type of players.

I am not being a wiseguy when I ask this, but would you have played with 6 or 7 defenders? Let me know how you would have done it. I would have put Giorkas, Ninis, and Salpi in from the start.

Best,

A

[jarvis1981]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/fifaworldc...gel-greece.html

Ok so Otto is history.

Thank-you for the memories.

It was time, however, for you to move on.

Now that Greece has had a taste of the Euro, World Cup and Confederation Cup it's clear that the fans want an entertaining team and one that no longer plays for just a tie.

Argentina won the last game 2-0 but it could have easily been 4 or 5 nothing. The point is that Greece hardly made an offensive thrust. Not easy to watch.

Ninis was not used properly in the tournament and wasn't played enough in the qualifications. YOUTH HAS TO BE A PRIORITY OF THIS TEAM.....they have to be given a chance and that means starting some games and not just playing the last 10 minutes here and there.

Slovakia, a new nation due to the split, just beat Italy 3-2 ......that's 3 goals in one game against the world champs.

Greece has to start thinking like this.

I want to go back to when Greece lost to Turkey 4-1; Greece played back and gave Turkey too much respect. Other teams attacked Turkey and won high scoring games. Argentina, although better, is similar to Turkey in that they are very good on the offensive side but rather poor on the defense.

Don't be surprised if Argentina lose 3-2 in the quarter-finals, I've written off England who they play next in the final 16.

Okay...one last time

Thank-you Otto for what you have done.

Good luck to you.

[athinaios]

Yes, Otto managed to bring discipline to a Greek side, and maybe that was the only good thing he did. Not a great strategist or evaluator of talent & positions.

In 2004, GR achieved a dream, like hitting a lottery... Someone has to win, eventually. No one expected GR to do anything, they didn't see them coming....

Not to take away their triumph. This sport is won by the end result. BUT AS GREEKS TAKE PRIDE IN a GOOD RESULT THEY SHOULD ALSO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MANY, MANY YEARS OF BAD RESULTS... especially after 2004, when GR supposedly found the recipe to success!

Objectively, GR won in 2004 by playing a destructive football. I know of noone who enjoyed those games (as a sport play) other than those who wanted Greece to win (including myself).

Without being ungreatful, I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I know it's almost a cultural thing, to keep a few persons (and families) in charge for ever.... but, let's look elsewhere for new leaders.. ;)

[andrew_g]

Objectively, GR won in 2004 by playing a destructive football. I know of noone who enjoyed those games (as a sport play) other than those who wanted Greece to win (including myself).

I agree good riddance, but Greece did not play destructive football in 2004, they had a midfield line, they fought, and after six games playing some of the best teams they were never shut out.

In this tournament Greece played boring soccer, except for the game against Nigeria.

[mangas21]

04 was not destructive football....

sweden was destructive, Argentina was destructive.......laying back against sk was 100000% destructive..

[andrew_g]

04 was not destructive football....

sweden was destructive, Argentina was destructive.......laying back against sk was 100000% destructive..

I agree with you 100% on that one.

A

[athinaios]

Fine, if you didn't see it that way... And, other teams are just as guilty of playing destructive football.

Obviously, if you play by the rules and succeed, then on that day you're a winner. And, that the beauty of it, because otherwise there would be no reason for playing.

The point I was trying to make was that as a fan without having a national team preference, you'd be hard pressed to say, hmmm I enjoyed that game... I saw those games in 2004. Lots of defense, much better midfield and lots more accurate during the few chances they created. But, I didn't see much of combinations, great ball movement, etc.

For example, Ghana just advanced to the 16. Bravo to them. But, as a fan, well, I'm not excited to see their game. There are a couple more teams like that. I'm sure their compatriots see things differently.

Anyway, Otto was the highest paid coach in the WC, with $1 mil/year salary. :blink:

[mangas21]

ath, 2004 to me was similar to a less potent italian football....(notwithstanding what happened today) when itlay is right they play defense first, but the MAJOR difference is when they need a goal they come down and put in what they need....they come down 3 times and generate 3 excellent chances....that to me that is offensive firepower - not coming down and creating 12 poor to mediocre chances.....in 04, we did the former....we came down purposely, with a plan and everyone clicked and, well u saw the results......true it was more long ball but we had wingers and backs that pushed up and that was sufficient....

(as a side note, i remember specifically in the czech republic game, first half about 27 minutes the one and onyl time i can remeber three or four passes strung together at the top of the czech box - i beleive if memory serves kastourani was in the middle of it)

so, i have no issue with destructive football - its all about winning, period....always has been.....but when i here the terms destructive i think of "destruction of the the teams pshyche and confidence to move forward"....

otto biggest mistake - killing the spirit of the team by telling them they DONT match up skill with the opposition...all this does is put them back on their heels from the veyr beginning, and when they need to flip teh switch, thjey cant or wont or dont for fear of getting caught -becuase after all our own coach is implying we cant keep pace with the opposition"

we will miss otto - for sure...dont kid yourselves...but, the new coach must focus on choosing the players that reflect his evaluation of greeces best attributes....

[thrylos]

04 was not destructive football....

sweden was destructive, Argentina was destructive.......laying back against sk was 100000% destructive..

I agree with you 100% on that one.

A

I disagree with the Argentina comment.

Greece needed to be cautious in that game. Did they need to press and score, yes they did.

The other games YES YOU ARE CORRECT

[PAO-1908]

Santos bad choice, Pao sacked him in 2 months.We need experienced coaches, or at least a Greek that takes no bs .

[Akritis_1944]

It was sad, but Greece were doomed before a ball was kicked. Despite losing twice to the Swiss, Greece are a better team, better players, and technique. Sadly Greece for the past 5 years has been poorly managed.

We needed a result against Argentina, not a footnote in record books saying that Greece missed out on the world cup, because of goal differential and Rehhagel played for a tie and ended up with a loss.

The problem occured because unlike 2004, that magical and confident tactitian was gone--he became jaded and cynical, knocking his players and acting like he was a genius in charge of a team of also-rans, and journeymen. Wouldn't it be embaressing as a player if your coach says things like, "I don't have players like Messi, and Kaka, that's why we can't play entertaining soccer." Alketas Panagoulias and Vassilis Daniil used to say the same things when they were coaching the national team (Daniil when he coached PAO in the '80s was more like Rehhagel was in 2004 though).

We can go and on about strategy, but there was no way that Greece were going to get a positive result against Argentina by playing only one man up front. What's the deal with playing a 6-3-1 and then a 7-3-1--look at New Zealand they played a braver game and bore some fruit? Is this a way to have former European champions play...acting like a team like San Marino trying to block a team like Italy from scoring?

Had we gone in with belief and a traditional 4-4-2 against Argentina we might have gotten a positive result, we might have lost, but we would have had the Argentines sweat, my dad always used to say, it just can take a punch in the face and that can knock down and make the bravest guy in the world cry. We had that chance, had we gone in with that free flowing soccer we played against Nigeria, we might have seen the whole Argentine team collapse. Instead we played as if we were playing with ten men and defending a lead. I would be the first to support such insanity if it worked; we gave up ten goals in qualifying--that means we're weak defensively and if we gave up a last minute goal to Moldova, why not Argentina?

Had we had Salpi, Ninis, and Gekas in the squad yesterday we could have pulled off a surprise. Gekas was very unlucky and superhuman saves by the Korean and Nigerian goalkeepers stopped him from opening his account--he was not a cursed and stage struck player like Pauleta who missed open nets. And Salpi's energy would have driven the Argentine's crazy--it was too late for Otto to realize that you have to take the pressure off of the defenders by having midfield and forward possesion and keep the Argentine's honest, because with only one forward they knew they could flood our 18 yard box with players since only Samaras could punish them.

I regret a few things, and one of them is that players like Giorkas, Karagounis, even Katsouranis, and Charisteas deserved a better farewell. They worked hard and battled hard but Otto was negative.

He did great things in 2004, his confidence was palpable--he gave me strength when I'd see him on the bench even when we were being beaten by Russia and Spain in 2004, but now he leaves with his legacy as that of a negative coach--the sad thing is that the 2004 team didn't play negative soccer--they scored a goal in every game they played and our tough Spaniards didnt manage that in 2008.

Andrea, that's a very logical and very well written piece.

It's astounding how we can go into a final match against anyone, and play 9 behind the ball knowing we need a win. Argentina's defence is exceptionally shaky and they will be exposed against better teams if they do go far in this tournament.

I can't believe people still believe Otto made the right choices in this world cup!

Can I ask the question to those who think that we will wish we had Otto back - when you saw Charisteas on the field as a right midfielder were you praising Otto? Or what about in the match against Korea were you pleasantly surprised to see Seitaridis playing when he barely played all season with PAO???

Since the 2004 Euro Otto has only ever been interested in *HIS* legacy and not of the welfare of the team and the nation in which they represent.

Like you point out, he has continuously insulted his players by claiming that they aren't good enough.

Argentina lost 6 - 1 to Bolivia in qualifying and I challenge anyone to name me a Bolivian player. Why couldn't we have had a shot at them?

We need a new manager who will be based in Greece and who is progressive and confident.

The Otto era was a productive one yet extremely frustrating post 2004.

Katsouranis/Patsa/Giourkas/Charisteas/Vyntra/Chalkias should never play for the NT again.

Let's hope the neew manager is given a chance like Otto was.

[Akritis_1944]

Santos bad choice, Pao sacked him in 2 months.We need experienced coaches, or at least a Greek that takes no bs .

Really??!? What a surprise! Greek football never sacks coaches early!

Your argument is ridiculous in any context.

Also to put your statement into perspective - Otto Rehhagel was fired from Bayern a few weeks before they were to play the UEFA Cup final in 1996. So what? He was a relatively successful coach as he was with our National team.

If the coach is to be Santos let's wait and see.

[gcp]

Lazare, no one wants to hear the bitter truth so no matter what we say around here life will go on on the half backed ideas we Greeks have been living with for hundreds of years now.

athinaios, not true, granted Otto was highly paid but he's not the highest paid. Cappelo comes in at 8mil I believe, and a few others are way above 1mil. But no doubt, I am still perplexed at what the hell Otto contributed for 1mil per year. The shithead didn't even return home with his team and some around here act like they'd like to make a protomh of the guy? It sure is a sick world we live in now days.

andrew_g, do you remember Russia in 2004? They gave us an ass whipping but hey our NT bounced right back to win it all so more power to them! Just keeping the facts straight.

Akriti, you can never compare Bolivia, or any other Latin team to Greece, there's no comparison to the skill, speed, and temperament their players posses. In comparison we move in slow mo. No doubt Argentina can be had, and will be had I predict before this WC is over, but not by us. The psixi's not there for a miracle with this group of players. The 2004 team was superior to this bunch by leaps and bounds.

Bottom line, 2004 is history, and history that was built by the players, not Otto. So, the sooner we accept the facts the sooner we'll put the silly concept of needing the "father figure" delusion to bed. The AA logo comes to mind; “Hi I’m Greece and I AM my own worst enemy”. Until we accept this simple fact there’s no chance for change no matter who’s at the helm.

[Lazarus]

Santos bad choice, Pao sacked him in 2 months.We need experienced coaches, or at least a Greek that takes no bs .

An excerpt from a Reuters article published on Yahoo! Sports

Santos, who has enjoyed great success as a club coach in the country, was recently named Coach of the Decade at a ceremony in Greece in recognition of his growing influence on Greek soccer.

I guess none of this counts, right? So, what are we looking for here?

[Akritis_1944]

An excerpt from a Reuters article published on Yahoo! Sports

Santos, who has enjoyed great success as a club coach in the country, was recently named Coach of the Decade at a ceremony in Greece in recognition of his growing influence on Greek soccer.

I guess none of this counts, right? So, what are we looking for here?

Exactly! Santos is just as qualified as anyone to manage the NT.

If he is announced as the manager then I am happy to give him the chance to put his influence on the team.

Also whomever is the new coach needs time (at least 5 matches) before the knives come out. Otto's first match in charge was a 5 - 1 loss to Finland for fux sake.

As Otto did (getting rid of Gergatos, Anatolakis etc) the new guy should clean house.

So hopefully no more Charistea and defnitely not as a friggin' right sided midfielder! :nono:

Also players like Chalkias, Vyntra, Patsa, Giourka, Katsouranis should be retired by their own will or by the new coach.

[mangas21]

“Tonight,” midfielder Gennaro Gattuso said, “we touched rock bottom.” VS. SAMARAS SAYING WE ARE HAPPY WITH OUR PERFORMANCE............

“I take full responsibility,” said coach Marcello Lippi, who led the Azzurri to the 2006 championship. “If the squad went out with fear in their legs and hearts it means the coach didn

[thrylos]

I challenge anyone to name me a Bolivian player

I challenge any Bolivian fan to name a Greek player

[levendi2000]

Not Santos.. Please..

The guy is a failure... dont over look his semi-success at PAOK and AEK..

He is s**** and was even sacked by Benfica at one stage

Sacked by Benfica after exactly one game (a draw btw), so I don't think that means anything.

Theres a difference in coaching at club level especially in greek league as opposed to world class