mangas21 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 hmmm...i see..what do u think happened in the Sweden game? how can a team look sooooo lost? what were they playin then? and what do think otto learned from that mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 hmmm...i see..what do u think happened in the Sweden game? how can a team look sooooo lost? what were they playin then? and what do think otto learned from that mess? Hopefully something to take into the WC.If he learnt nothing then we will be emabarressed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 We have the players to play like that NOW! However Otto is responsible for the style and quality of our tactics and play. I used to bang on about how in the past we were actually a very skillfull NT. We could have loads and loads of possession and dominate teams, but we had little in the way of decent defense or cutting edge up front and we would regularly see matches end in blowout scores where we actually dominated posession. In the late 80's and early 90's we used to beat teams by large margins in friendlies... I remember a 6 - 1 win over Egypt (then a humiliating 7 - 1 against Denmark or that 5 nil against England at old Wembley prior to the 94 WC where as some have forgotten or did not watch the match....we had far more posession than the English!!!) Otto brought in team discipline and a structure designed to be miserly in defense and hit on the counter and as seen by Euro 04 it worked perfectly...the problem since then is that he has not evolved his ideas to the players he has now and results on a regressive brand of kick-ball which is not only ugly watch, but not that effective. I mean come on people....we couldn't defeat Moldova away or Switzerland and Ukraine at home!?!?! We actually have very good young players. Players who are not just work horses, but are very skillfull, but to Otto they are not fit for his system. So of course we played fantastically against England back in 2001, as Otto hadn't fully ingrained his footballing philosophy on decent and skilled players. He essentially broke them down to play his system and it certainly worked as we were Euro champions a mere 3 years later, but it's come to the detriment of a decent football style. Good post and I'm not denying we have players like that now. The thing is you have to break in the younger guys over a period of time; Otto didn't do this so this is where we are now. He was great for us up to a certain point - he's not a progressive minded coach. I've stated in other threads that I would have brought in players like Agritis, Theodoridis, Papas, Dimoutsos, Manzios, and others. If this were done a couple of years ago we would be looking at a different team w/ a more creative style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 hmmm...i see..what do u think happened in the Sweden game? how can a team look sooooo lost? what were they playin then? and what do think otto learned from that mess? As Agritis says, only time will tell whether he's learned from his mistakes or not. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 im convinced that 08 team was abit slower, a bit lazier, and just plain confused as to what they were as a team and as a unit...also, i think otto cut their legs from under them regarding any ability to play some kind of attack... i was very surprised to see otto not have ANY answers to swedens very predictable tactic....or did the players simply not know how to resppnd? in any case it may be ancient hisotry now but as the saying goes :those who dont remeber history are condemned to repeat it"....... there is no right, thereis no wrong, there are just lessons.....lets hope that something positve can be created out of a big negative.... probelm is: if we geet into a group with teams we never played, its more likeky otto may use hte same tactics, only this time i hope has given teh guys some guidance as to how to turn on the volume when and if we need to score - and of course the giys have to execute - the coach can only do so much....the players are the ones that perform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 im convinced that 08 team was abit slower, a bit lazier, and just plain confused as to what they were as a team and as a unit...also, i think otto cut their legs from under them regarding any ability to play some kind of attack... i was very surprised to see otto not have ANY answers to swedens very predictable tactic....or did the players simply not know how to resppnd? in any case it may be ancient hisotry now but as the saying goes :those who dont remeber history are condemned to repeat it"....... there is no right, thereis no wrong, there are just lessons.....lets hope that something positve can be created out of a big negative.... probelm is: if we geet into a group with teams we never played, its more likeky otto may use hte same tactics, only this time i hope has given teh guys some guidance as to how to turn on the volume when and if we need to score - and of course the giys have to execute - the coach can only do so much....the players are the ones that perform He can give them guidance by using midfielders who can create opportunitys for the strikers. They can't just "turn on the volume" without a proper system in place...I don't really know what is so complicated about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 clove apparently its not that easy...just look at our play for the last 8 years... we are never gonna be an attacking team...p e r i o d......u can forget that....we dont have the mentality and attitude needed for that - about our game, our ability, our tactics....so whats the alternative? a countering team....otto plan: commit to defense, and be clever and opportunistic on teh counter......thats us.... problem is everybody knows it, its not an element of surprise anymore so sweden figured it out and we looked like abunch of malakes playing patty cake infront of our goal..... so, then what's the answer? otto's philosophy and judgment as to what are our best chnaces to win MUST change.....if it does not, then expect more of the same...a few guys made some comments, real good comments, about the new formation and maybe it provides some flexibility for the mids pushing higher up... i see the wings with room all the time, AND i also see the top of the penalty area and about 10-15 back ALWAYS WIDE open, clear.....not much support for the forwards on a consistent basis...thats why we are not an attacking team.....too much comitment to statying back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 FIFA Organising Committee approves Final Draw procedure (FIFA.com) Wednesday 2 December 2009 The FIFA Organising Committee approved today the procedure for the Final Draw of the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa™, which will be held in Cape Town on Friday 4 December. The seeding was based on the October 2009 FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking (which you can see by clicking on the link to the right), and Brazil, Spain, the Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Argentina and England are therefore the seven squads that join hosts South Africa as seeded teams for the Final Draw. The committee also approved the composition of the other pots as well as the procedure for the final draw: • Pot 2 will be composed of teams from Asia (Australia, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic), North, Central America and the Caribbean (Honduras, Mexico, USA) and Oceania (New Zealand) • Pot 3 will include teams from Africa (Algeria, Cameroon, Côte d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEKPROTATHLIMA Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Let's hope for a good draw. Keeping my fingers cross!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 forget about the draw - lets hope we get the right guys and chemistry and PLAY WELL.....if so the draw is irrelevant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 clove apparently its not that easy...just look at our play for the last 8 years... we are never gonna be an attacking team...p e r i o d......u can forget that....we dont have the mentality and attitude needed for that - about our game, our ability, our tactics....so whats the alternative? a countering team....otto plan: commit to defense, and be clever and opportunistic on teh counter......thats us.... problem is everybody knows it, its not an element of surprise anymore so sweden figured it out and we looked like abunch of malakes playing patty cake infront of our goal..... so, then what's the answer? otto's philosophy and judgment as to what are our best chnaces to win MUST change.....if it does not, then expect more of the same...a few guys made some comments, real good comments, about the new formation and maybe it provides some flexibility for the mids pushing higher up... i see the wings with room all the time, AND i also see the top of the penalty area and about 10-15 back ALWAYS WIDE open, clear.....not much support for the forwards on a consistent basis...thats why we are not an attacking team.....too much comitment to statying back.... "We are never going to be an attacking team" how the hell do you know? We don't have the right mentality and attitude? So should the defensive mids change their mentality? Will they be more attacking then? Or should we maybe look at bringing in attacking midfielders instead? Does that not make sense? I don't see how you can predict that we'll never be an attacking team period since you don't even know who the next coach will be after the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primetime Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Boys, boys, stop talking about the pointless future after the W.C. think of who the hell Otto will select to represent my parents homeland and not get embarrassed. Because if Otto sticks with the same squad, O.M.G. were in for worst than at the 08 EURO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEKPROTATHLIMA Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Boys, boys, stop talking about the pointless future after the W.C. think of who the hell Otto will select to represent my parents homeland and not get embarrassed. Because if Otto sticks with the same squad, O.M.G. were in for worst than at the 08 EURO!!! Ottos players selection will be about the same players that took Greece to the W.C. I really don't see him changing allot of players if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFI-mtl Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Ottos players selection will be about the same players that took Greece to the W.C. I really don't see him changing allot of players if any. I disagree players like Pliatsakas, Fotakis and Mitro and Koutsianikoulis ,can force there way on to more playing time if they can open eyes from now til selection time.I think Otto must have been impressed with the play of Pliatsakas the last game playing way out of position and holding his own. * STARTERS Keepers: *Sifakis,Tzorvas,Chalkias Defenders: *Giourkas ,*Spyropoulos,*Socrates,*Moras,Soto, Vyntra,Tavlaridis (It wil be Avraam) Mids: *Toro,*Karagounis,*Katsouranis,Pliatsakas,Tziolis,Fotakis,Ninis,Makos Fwds: *Samaras,*Salpi,Gekas,*Koutsianikoulis,Mitro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 FIFA Organising Committee approves Final Draw procedure (FIFA.com) Wednesday 2 December 2009 The FIFA Organising Committee approved today the procedure for the Final Draw of the 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa™, which will be held in Cape Town on Friday 4 December. The seeding was based on the October 2009 FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking (which you can see by clicking on the link to the right), and Brazil, Spain, the Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Argentina and England are therefore the seven squads that join hosts South Africa as seeded teams for the Final Draw. The committee also approved the composition of the other pots as well as the procedure for the final draw: • Pot 2 will be composed of teams from Asia (Australia, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic), North, Central America and the Caribbean (Honduras, Mexico, USA) and Oceania (New Zealand) • Pot 3 will include teams from Africa (Algeria, Cameroon, Côte d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 clove, i dont know.....my O P I N I O N is that we will never be an attacking team...how i define an attacking team? Brazil. England. Spain.....teams whose strategy is to put pressure on teh other temas defense by constantly pushing forward without as much regard being countered.... do you think we will ever be an attacking team under that definition? if u say anything but NO, then you are not watching the same thing i am..... i say we will always be a defense first team and AT BEST, a B E T T E R counter team...we have tasted success with a defense first mentality. I dont se us changing that - nor should we - the italians have been playing catanaccio for ages....but here the difference - listen closely... last world cup qualifiers cyprus was leading italy 2-0 going inot the 77th minute. so what do the italians do? 77 goal - 88 - goal 90 - goal...... final score 3-2 italy.... so you tell me - is that an attacking team? i say no - its a team tha C A N attack and knows how to attack when it has to....they can switch gears as needed based on teh game, the score, the opponet and the weaknesses they see...that really the best our team can hope for based on how they develop talent, and how they have been groomed to paly based on teh skills they bring to the table.... so in the end, no i dont KNOW nuthin....but, i stand by my evaluation of this partocular topic. and, its very relevant because as many here have pointed out quite accurately, we need to support the forwards better...why do think gekas, haristeas, maclas and bunch of otehr go outside greece and LEAD their leauges in scoring? its becasue they act like brazilians, or english, or spanish players....its because theu get support form behind the mids push up and play more box to box.... unless our mids do more of that, gekas and haristea will be fighting each other for headers.....but otto knows you are much more vulnerable playing inexperienced players on defense that offense......so the best we can expect is either the same players pushing up further, or a few new guys with more speed and individual skills supporting the forwards and creting their own space......unless u c alot of friendlies with alot of experiementing, the former is more likely than the latter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEKPROTATHLIMA Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I disagree players like Pliatsakas, Fotakis and Mitro and Koutsianikoulis ,can force there way on to more playing time if they can open eyes from now til selection time. I think Otto must have been impressed with the play of Pliatsakas the last game playing way out of position and holding his own. Agree, but Plaitsikas and Mitroglou have been called up by Otto this year to help Greece get to the W.C. So my point is that he will not be changing allot of players that took us to the W.C. About Koutsianikoulis i will be very suprise that he will get the call from Otto. The kid is good but comeing of the bench every game with PAOK will not help him. Again is early to talk about this because allot of things can happen between now and then(injuries....) so we will see what he does.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_g Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I would like to avoid Brazil, Germany, and Holland. But other than that, if we have an easy looking draw that is not always the best thing. In USA 94 we had Argentina which was beaten by Colombia 5-0, Bulgaria (got into the world because they were lucky to beat France), Nigeria (maiden world cup appearance), and we lost badly. You had Euro 2004 with Russia, Spain, and Portugal and we scraped through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 i want gremany brazil holland bring em on !!! you gonna have to face quality eventually.....better chance at the knock out stages than one game do or die.... besides, maybe a tough tough draw forces otto to reconsider tactics/strategy/personel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve07 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 What time is the draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_g Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 i want gremany brazil holland bring em on !!! you gonna have to face quality eventually.....better chance at the knock out stages than one game do or die.... besides, maybe a tough tough draw forces otto to reconsider tactics/strategy/personel do you think Otto will have Greece play well against the Fatherland ;-)Seriously that puts him in a weird situation. I just don't want Holland, we have a rotten record against them. Just don't think that low seeded teams are easy for us. We did badly against Japan a team which we are tactically better than. a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 stranger things have happened....would be surprised to see greece & germany in the same group.....makes for great drama.....so here a prediction.. greece germany chile australia or greece germany honduras korea something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well I would like to play Italy, the US and England...I'd love to shut the English up and Greece - Italy would be a game everyone on the planet would watch. That would be something. But my gut instinct tells me we will advance to the next round...even at this early point. Beyond that who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpos Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I dont think it's much of a difference who we meet from the seeded teams. The most we can hope for in that game is a lucky draw. It's more important that we avoid teams that we haven't played well against from the other groups. A win and two draws would see us thru to the next round. Maybe even one of each ( a win, a draw, and a loss) if we would lose to the group winner that is. If we go out of this world cup without a win, then that's how Otto will be remembered. Let's hope not after all he has done for our football! :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If we go out of this world cup without a win, then that's how Otto will be remembered. Let's hope not after all he has done for our football! :gr: no he won't. he's a legend whatever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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