drakos13 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 So, I dont know if everybody has heard about the new Qualifying formats for the Champions League. Runners Up and Champions will be divided into separate categories. So bascally, a bunch of inferior teams will be given easy passes for winning their useless leagues into the Group Stages of the CL, while the runners up in the mid leagues and big leagues have to fight out the leftovers. Here is a list: Shakhtar Sporting Lisbon Panathinaikos Celtic Anderlecht Sparta Prague Dinamo Bucharest FC Twente Dynamo Moscow Sivasspor Arsenal Lyon Stuttgart Fiorentina Atletico Madrid Only FIVE of those teams will go in the Champions Leauge Group Stages. Now right now, it may not look so bad becuase a lot of underdog teams this year. In your average year, you could also have clubs like Fenerbahce, PSV, CSKA, Galatasaray, Roma, Steaua, Zenit, Besiktas, Liverpool, Benfica, Porto, Marseille etc as often runners up of the mid leagues. Now, many teams that normally participate and even quite competitive in the CL, are sent to the trash, to promote inferior quality teams from lesser countries. And the rest of the under qualified teams are going to play each other to get in the group stages. Basically in the group stages they will not be as competitive, challenging or entertaining because FIFA are idiots. By the way, normal 3rd place runners up of the top 3 were made sure to get free passes and qualification into the CL, which is also new, and ridiculous. The big advantage and bonus of the top 3 leauges, was that THEY GET TO HAVE MAXIMUM OF FOUR TEAMS IN IT. Thats incredible enough for a leaugue's development. As for helping "little countries - little countries do not need a boost. If you go back 10 years and look objectively, the world of football has increased dramatically and developed quite incredibly. The days of big clubs breezing through UEFA Cup has ended. In international play, standard has increased tremendously. As an example Normally youd expect teams like England to play FYROM and smash them 5-0 and telos, but now big countries have to work a lot harder against the developing football countries to even get the 3 points. Even Greece managed to beat Spain and win the whole Euro. Its all a sign of how much more the rest of the world is getting more competitive and is developing JUST FINE on its own. Take a look at CL in the last few years........We've had so many first represtntaitongs in the CL in the last 5-7 years. Israel, Cyprus, Belarus, Denmark, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and even Lithuania came within 1 match of having a team in the CL group stages. And thats all in a competitive system, and theyre getting better. Eastern bloc and new money countries like Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus are all on the rise, after many years of post Soviet ridicule. Anyways : Here was my intiial quesiton: Does anybody have an idea why BELGIUM, got an automatic CL berth this year??? Because I cant speak for other nations, but Greece has outrnaked them in the coefficients for the last THREE seasons, and Belgium has been so terrible and did not even have an automatic spot this year either. So it would be interesting to know why the Greek Champion has to qualify for the tournament, with way more contribution to the Champions League and Europe in recent history, must qualify but Belgium, out of nowhere has a free berth - I find that outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Platini wants to spread the wealth and power across Europe. He wanted to do this by saying each country is allowed a maximum of 2-3 teams in the CL, but Europe's superclubs threatened to break away and start their own European Superleague. UEFA were forced to pull out of that plan and they came up with this crappy one instead. I have to say though I agreed with Platini's initial idea, because something has to be done. The examples you've given of smaller teams doing well are limited to "qualifying for the CL". What right does a team like Villareal have to be bigger or better than clubs like CSKA Moscow, PAO, Galatasary, Ajax, etc. It's all about money now, the chances of a team from a mediocre or small nation creating an excellent team are non-existent. Yes teams from: Israel, Cyprus, Belarus, Denmark, Slovakia, Bulgaria,have qualified in recent times, but middle-level European teams are struggling. I'd bet you a huge amount that next years CL winners will be one of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca, Real Madrid, Inter, Juve, or Milan (that's 9 teams from 3 countries). So while the teams from big countries find the UEFA Cup difficult they dominate the CL. Also, bare in mind that the prize money in the UEFA Cup is so poor that most most teams from the big leagues prioritise the domestic competitions. Look at Tottenham for instance. This is a team that were in danger of getting relegated for most of the season so when they played against the eventual winners (Shakhter) this is the team they played: Gomes, Bale, Huddlestone, Gilberto (Bostock), Palacios, Gunter, Dos Santos, Campbell, O'Hara (Parrett), Obika and Chimbonda. That's 2 players from the first team (the keeper, who was actually the 2nd keeper at the time because of poor form, and Palacios who was a new signing and was being tested). The game finished 1-1. Something has to be done and limiting each country to 2 participants, with the winning nation getting 3, would have been great. But this new format only makes things even harder for the middle-level teams. If the draw kicks up PAO vs Arsenal, Sparta Prague vs Fiorentina, and Unirea Urziceni (who will win the Romanian league this year) vs Lyon then all the middle level teams will go out. It's a dumb system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1000 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 when they began letting 4 teams from 1 country into the european cup that was the beginning of the end for smaller countries it was great in the past when teams like ajax red star marseille were able to win the european cup and teams like pao dundee united ferencvaros steaua bucharest benfica were able to reach the latter stages, now the difference in wealth caused partly by allowing teams from the big leagues to flood the competition means you'll only ever get winners from england spain italy or maybe germany. this in a continent of over 50 countries. also by allowing 4 teams from 1 country into the european cup its totally trashed the uefa cup where you used to get 2nd 3rd place teams from england and spain now you get teams playing their reserves in this competition who are fighting relegation in their own league and the early rounds are very poorly attended. european football used to be so special but now there's far too much of it, this europa league will make things worse. re-instate the cup winners cup restrict the champions league to just champions + the defending champions and then you'll have a strong uefa cup again. sadly it will never happen :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 any idea as to why BELGIUM, has a an automatic spot? In my opinion this is outrageous. I cant find anything anywhere explainging why, Greece's higher coefficients over the last 3 seasons and Belgium is handed an automatic spot. I think Superleague should be quite furious, that an inferior league with inferior standings has been given an automatic spot, and Greece doesnt seem to care? Not that I dont think OSFP will qualify anyways (their draw is incredibly easy), but still, its ridiulcous the Belgian Champion is rushed in, when clearly the Greek League contributes more to European football, in UEFA and especially Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 any idea as to why BELGIUM, has a an automatic spot? In my opinion this is outrageous. I cant find anything anywhere explainging why, Greece's higher coefficients over the last 3 seasons and Belgium is handed an automatic spot. I think Superleague should be quite furious, that an inferior league with inferior standings has been given an automatic spot, and Greece doesnt seem to care? Not that I dont think OSFP will qualify anyways (their draw is incredibly easy), but still, its ridiulcous the Belgian Champion is rushed in, when clearly the Greek League contributes more to European football, in UEFA and especially Champions League. The same could be said for the Swiss league being ranked above ours. UEFA have to sort out this system because it's shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Swiss league isnt ranked above ours to my knowledge. Im fairly certain. I know they dont have an automatic berth in the CL or any benefits above us. They cant be, their teams have not performed at all. Basel was the worst in the CL this year, and not even one Swiss team made the Group Stage of UEFA In fact, outside of Basel's CL qualifying 2 wins, Swiss teams did not have a single win in any European Competition. I dont understand, Belgium has only fallen in rankings, yet this year have been awarded an automatic place. The coefficients of the year before apply, so last seasons are supposed to dictate how many teams we have this year. We were ranked higher than Belgium last season, AND the season before that. I checked. We were higher, and its obvious as to why given our performances and contributions to UEFA tournaments being so much more. I also have no clue, howcome I'm the only person outraged by this? Does EPO even care? Does the media even care? This is actually something quite controversial, unless UEFA has states some sort of grand exception, which would still make it an issue of controversy and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I also have no clue, howcome I'm the only person outraged by this? Does EPO even care? Does the media even care? This is actually something quite controversial, unless UEFA has states some sort of grand exception, which would still make it an issue of controversy and discussion. I've looked into some Belgian articles etc but can't find any explanation for this. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Apparently I'm the only person that cares that Greece has higher rankings the last 3 seasons, yet Belgium has the automatic berth. I'm quite dissapointed in Greek papers who are busy writing science fiction like "Tracy McGrady erxetai ston 8rylo!" or 'Grafite: "PAO is my top choice club" '! To even give a hint as to why this happened, why has an inferior ranked and quality league given advantages over another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 One of the 16 automatic spots always goes to the holders, which this season is Barcelona. Since they qualified through the league anyway, the holder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 OK I found this from somebody's blog- I'm a bit confused as to how these rankings work. Apparently It doesnt matter that you score higher than a team on overall rankings or something. I found a list of calculated coefficients and Belgium was in 13th, Greece was in 14th. So they are given a spot. How belgium managed to stay in 13th with such horrific performances over the years, is the new question. Year before that they were 12th, and Greece was in 15th. I'm starting to think that CL performance is not specially ranked, petty UEFA wins must be getting all the points. OK: So this is divulging into another topic, but I realized why Belgium is being awarded for inferior performances - simply because they entered in less teams. The coefficients are ended up as an average of teams performances, not by sums. So basically the tournaments are not weighted (CL means just as much as UEFA :blink: ) but there are "bonus points" which I have no idea how are given out. The year that we finished behind them, we scored 28 points as a league. They scored 23.5, but they were awarded a higher average, because we had one more team (who did poorly) They had 23.5/5, and we had 28/6 So basically, sending teams like Atromitos and Xanthi into Europe to go lose us 2 games does nothing but drag down the average of the leagues performace. Those 2 early UEFA round exists cost us quite big. I beleive now does us better to send in less teams of better value. Makes some sense, maybe theres no controversy afterall. BTW: This year, AEK and Aris cost us most in the coefficients....We could have been much higher if they made it through their rounds/won.... Yes, this is the point someone else was making when arguing about what was a strong league, the Greek or Scottish (I think it was DUDE but may have been someone else). He was basically arguing that Scotland shouldn't be above Greece because they enter 3 teams and only 2 do well, blah, blah. I agree with this, averaging a countries performance is dumb. If you do well you get more teams so you're ranked higher. That's how it should work. So if Belgium are doing well they should get an extra spot in the UEFA cup not an automatic spot in the cl. Thats just dumb. Otherwise some Arab billioniare could invest in a club from San Marino, he makes them world class but the rest of their league is garbage and they'd end up ranked higher than the Greek league because their one team does well and only 1 of our 5 does well so when they average out the coefficients San Marino well have a better ranked league! :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 The average is a bit dumb yes, but it does better reflect the overall performance of the leagues' representation as a whole. Unfortunatley, its not enough when PAO wins all the points, because if others fail miserably PAO is still making a difference, but a diminishing one. The average emphasizes that success is better all around the board. But still, in the case of Greece vs Belgium, where 1 team averaged in makes the break its a bit unfair, because if Belgium had another team represnteing them in Europe, they'd be right there with zero points too. The only difference is Greeces succesful top teams and unsuccesful botom teams was too high where the top teams were good enough to drag the crap ones into competition. Belgium's difference was similar, but their teams werent good enough to drag an extra team in the equation to kill there average. So in a sense, Belgium's non-success has helped them acheive advantage over a more contributing and better league. Quite stupid. If there teams had done better in the past, theyd have had an extra UEFA spot, and another crappier team entered to lower their average. At the same time, totals are more unfair. Then basically, rankings would be impossible to change. Teams with more teams would get more points. Say Greece has 5 teams, and Azerbaijan 2, those 2 teams have to win as many points as 5 teams. Needless to say, theres less matches for Azerbaijan, and so less opportunity to score points. And not to mention, even if they exceed Greek teams in competitions, they can still be way behind on point totals, keeping them nowhere. Some sort of performance measurement has to exist. It cant be totals, and averages dont sound ideal, but theyre the best I can think of, to keep a competitive league system. But some optimistic news: Greece finishing 12th this year, means that next year Superleague Champion will be assured a spot in the Champions League. I'd like to see us move up more to be honest. We need OSFP to win games, and strong performances in the Europa Cup, which are just as important to be honest. If PAO does not make the CL, if they go to Europa Greece could benefit more (assuming they do well) from the bonus points, wins etc. We just cant afford to have AEK, PAOK, and AEL crap out on us in Europa League. We need all of them in the Group Stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here we go! FIVE OF THESE TEAMS WILL GO INTO THE GROUP STAGE Olympiakos Copenhagen Levski Sofia Maccabi Haifa Zurich Sheriff Ventspils Debrecan APOEL FC Salzburg YET 5 OF THESE WILL NOT. Arsenal Lyon Sporting CP Panathinaikos Stuttgart Fiorentina Atletico Madrid Celtic Anderlecht Timisoara Its bad enough, no more than 1 team is worthy of playing group football in that top group, worse yet making the 3rd Round CL Qualifyers is a bit of a shock for some of those teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStriker Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 YET 5 OF THESE WILL NOT. Arsenal Lyon Sporting CP Panathinaikos Stuttgart Fiorentina Atletico Madrid Celtic Anderlecht Timisoara Its bad enough, no more than 1 team is worthy of playing group football in that top group, worse yet making the 3rd Round CL Qualifyers is a bit of a shock for some of those teams. It's a shame either Celtic or Arsenal will not be in the Champions League. Arsenal is at least a final 8 team and Celtic is pretty good as well, no reason to believe they can't make it to the knock out stages if they qualify for the CL. Great fans those Irish and Nakamura is a class player, one of the best there is at free kicks. Still can't forget the goal he scored vs. Man U a couple years ago. Nakamura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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