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cyberfish

Summer 2009 transfers

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i too would love to see Matos stay as well, i just dont see how they keep both of them. Maybe Simao will be sold since they can get more money for him.

Well why not? Gilberto isn't getting any younger, he has one more season at best so why not rotate him and play Mattos against the "easier" opposition in the Superleague. In 2 years he'll take Gilberto's spot.

I virtually guarantee that Simao will be sold and Katsouranis will be brought in as a replacement though <_<

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Mattos does not seem to be the kind of DM that fits in Ten Cate's system. From what I've seen this year, Ten Cate wants his DMs to have CB characteristics with a little better ball control.

His moves to put in Melissis and later David at DM tells me that he values height in the position. Height helps in set pieces (both defending and attacking) and wins high balls in midfield to put the other team in their half during goalkicks. Subtle but valuable. Added: IMO, this is the reason Katsouranis makes sense for PAO.

While most fans and reporters are stuck in the "must play box to box" mode, what Ten Cate has been trying to do is to let the fullbacks play high in support of the wings and let the DMs drop deep to defend. It's a shame that neither of our fullbacks can't play this kind of game. Well, Nilsson is 10 times better than Spyropoulos when they cross midfield but this doesn't say much because Spyropoulos is abysmal on attack (maybe a handful of crosses have come from his foot all season).

Despite all that, I think Ten Cate was counting o Mattos for many of the Superleague games but Mattos did get injured quite a bit after mid-season. What's interesting is Mattos started the season as a starter. He played both games agains Tbilisi, then he played against Inter and at Anorthosi (yep, we lost both, so his presence wasn't exactly a miracle cure for our defensive woes).

He also started the next five games after the game @AEK. Somehow, even though he is one of my favorite players, I don't see a problem with his little playing time. Simao/Gilberto have been an excellent tandem in midfield. He is still young and like DUDE said, he will get to play. The only regret I have is seeing Melissis come in some games instead of Mattos at CB, but on the other hand I am happy Tziolis got some playing time and got a good chance to move to a better league.

Edited by cyberfish

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he has one more season at best so why not rotate him and play Mattos against the "easier" opposition in the Superleague.

Theres really no such thing as these games anymore.

Bottom quality teams have gotten better than the old days (people love to rubbish the superleague but IMO this is very clear) and every game is crucial. No point playing anybody but the best, weather its vs AEK or Thrasyvoulos.

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Mattos does not seem to be the kind of DM that fits in Ten Cate's system. From what I've seen this year, Ten Cate wants his DMs to have CB characteristics with a little better ball control.

His moves to put in Melissis and later David at DM tells me that he values height in the position. Height helps in set pieces (both defending and attacking) and wins high balls in midfield to put the other team in their half during goalkicks. Subtle but valuable. Added: IMO, this is the reason Katsouranis makes sense for PAO.

While most fans and reporters are stuck in the "must play box to box" mode, what Ten Cate has been trying to do is to let the fullbacks play high in support of the wings and let the DMs drop deep to defend. It's a shame that neither of our fullbacks can't play this kind of game. Well, Nilsson is 10 times better than Spyropoulos when they cross midfield but this doesn't say much because Spyropoulos is abysmal on attack (maybe a handful of crosses have come from his foot all season).

Despite all that, I think Ten Cate was counting o Mattos for many of the Superleague games but Mattos did get injured quite a bit after mid-season. What's interesting is Mattos started the season as a starter. He played both games agains Tbilisi, then he played against Inter and at Anorthosi (yep, we lost both, so his presence wasn't exactly a miracle cure for our defensive woes).

He also started the next five games after the game @AEK. Somehow, even though he is one of my favorite players, I don't see a problem with his little playing time. Simao/Gilberto have been an excellent tandem in midfield. He is still young and like DUDE said, he will get to play. The only regret I have is seeing Melissis come in some games instead of Mattos at CB, but on the other hand I am happy Tziolis got some playing time and got a good chance to move to a better league.

Good points Cyber, but the fact remains that Gilberto will probably only be able to play at this level for one more season, the same probably goes for Karagounis. So if PAO allows Tziolis, Mattos and Simao to leave then the team may be in crisis in 2 seasons. If Mattos and Tziolis are to go then I'd be happy with Katsouranis as the replacement. (But that would also mean PAO would have to be prepared to spend more money again a year later, and as Drakos has said PAO's purchasing record isn't exactly great). However, if Simao is the one to leave then Katsouranis won't be a sufficient enough replacement (neither will Mattos for the reasons you've mentioned). I'm not saying Kats isn't a good player, but Simao is a Owen Hargreaves style holding midfielder (runs around like a lunatice winning the ball) that's what PAO needs to play alongside Gilberto.

@ Drakos: There are no easy games, but there are games that PAO rest Gilberto for and still expect them to win.

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Of course there are easier games.... but only if you play close to 100% of your abilities.... otherwise :angry:

Unfortunately, PAO, for years now, plays down to the weak opponents. The team has done better against harder ones.

If a team has high goals and you already have players that suits your needs, then you don't sell.

You let go of a player if: 1. his contract is up 2. you have someone better already 3. he no longer fits in your plans 4. he isn't what he used to.

Otherwise, the team shouldn't have any high goals like winning a domestic title or doing well in Europe.

Simao is a diamond. Same with Matos, and a few others.

But, the more things appear to change within PAO the more they remain the same. I hear that the players and Ten Kate don't exactly like each other. If the team doesn't get 2nd place, then here we go again, and again, and again... new season, new coach.

With the exception of 5-7 games in Europe (mostly) the team underpeformed this season and lost everything, except the pursuit of 2nd place... behind 10+ points from gavroi..

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Of course there are easier games.... but only if you play close to 100% of your abilities.... otherwise :angry:

Unfortunately, PAO, for years now, plays down to the weak opponents. The team has done better against harder ones.

If a team has high goals and you already have players that suits your needs, then you don't sell.

You let go of a player if: 1. his contract is up 2. you have someone better already 3. he no longer fits in your plans 4. he isn't what he used to.

Otherwise, the team shouldn't have any high goals like winning a domestic title or doing well in Europe.

Simao is a diamond. Same with Matos, and a few others.

But, the more things appear to change within PAO the more they remain the same. I hear that the players and Ten Kate don't exactly like each other. If the team doesn't get 2nd place, then here we go again, and again, and again... new season, new coach.

With the exception of 5-7 games in Europe (mostly) the team underpeformed this season and lost everything, except the pursuit of 2nd place... behind 10+ points from gavroi..

As you know I'm one of the biggest critics of Greek teams, especially PAO which I consider to be a sleeping giant yet everyone (the board, the fans, etc) seems satisfied that the giant is asleep as long as he stirs every now and again <_<

BUT, since the Ira game where PAO where abysmal I've seen enough promising things to know that PAO is moving in the right direction. I've read things in the media that suggest otherwise but I'm confident in HTC's ability and I think it's imperative that he stays. If he doesn't I'll give up on this club once and for all!

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I agree that we've seen a lot of improvement this year: better ball control, better circulation, more scoring, more variety on attack, more aggressive work in the league organizations, to name the most important imo.

But we've also seen some of the old sins that have been banishing the team to hell: horrid upper management decisions and talk, horrid planning, bad scouting, bad defensive game when it matters most, lack of clear goal setting, low self esteem, a fatalistic mentality, and too much whining from the owners, club officials, coaches, players, and fans about frivolous things.

We need to find ways to establish a winning mentality. As I write this, I get a dejavu feeling because all of us have been saying the same thing over the last five years that I frequent this boards.

This season is all but lost. But the club needs to pull up themselves by their bootstraps and they need to do everything to attain this one little goal that's left: second place. Winning a war comes through winning the small battles. Management needs to keep the team focused.

Here is an idea: Stop thinking as if this is the end of a lost season and begin treating it as if this is the beginning of the next one. Make sure the players understand this, and the value of investing everything in winning the CL spot and move forward.

Forget the stupid fines. They are only fitting for third world teams. You don't motivate your players by fining them. They only create a rift between Upper and lower club members and don't re-enforce team spirit. Instead, find ways to banish those elements that don't contribute to the team mentality. If they are expensive players, get rid of them to send a message. If they are officials in upper management, get rid of them as well.

Last, send a strong message of supporting the coach. There is nothing more corrosive than players who feel their efforts to undermine the coach can be successful.

Edited by cyberfish

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you're right, but the problem lays much higher. This corupted league needs to change, then maybe things can change with this team. Right now its set up for gyftous to be happy

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you're right, but the problem lays much higher. This corupted league needs to change, then maybe things can change with this team. Right now its set up for gyftous to be happy

who are these gyftous you speak about? :blink: :LOL:

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good offers come in for Moon, Simao & Ivansich & they will be sold. The latest..

Which is all fine & well for this coach. Dont sell the players then fire this coach!! in the PAO typical fashion

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Here is a riddle for you guys:

Ten Cate wants a 24 player roster. There are reports that he asked for a CB, a LW, and a CF, and I also read that we are looking to bring another RB along with re-signing Nilsson.

So if we bring in 4 players we have to let go of 6 existing ones.

On defense the candidates are: Moon, Melissis, Goumas, David

Moon is quick but he has not established himself as a must-keep defender or midfielder. David is young and unknown. He also holds a foreign spot. If we buy a starting CB I think all 4 will depart.

then our defense will be NewRB-Vintra-NewCB-Spyropoulos

the backups will be Nilsson-Wawrzyniak-Sariegi

That's 4 down, two to go.

In DM we have:

Mattos-Simao-Gilberto-Leontiou

Leontiou is a candidate for loaning since he hasn't played in two years and he can benefit from getting some games under his belt before he returns. I don't see anyone else leaving.

That's 5 down, one to go.

I am pretty sure Ten Cate will give the 4-2-3-1 a full speed ahead, so at AM (the "3") we have:

Salpigidis-Ninis-Karagounis-Gabriel-Cleyton-Ivanschitz-Christodoulopoulos-NewLW

There is no way we'll keep 8 AMs, or even 7. We'll probably keep 5 or six if management plans this the way they should. This means one or two of the existing seven AMs will depart.

Who would it be? If you had to pick one AM to unload, who would you pick?

Salpi is not going anywhere and he can play as a striker as well. Karagounis is not moving either. Ninis is a lock as well. So, this leaves Ivan, Lazaro, and Cleyton. All three were tried as LM/LW and no one satisfied Ten Cate. A new transfer will lock that spot, but who of the three will be gone? I think Chistodoulopoulos has showed better game late in the season and will probably stay. I can see either Ivan or Cleyton gone. Either fan boys or Vgenopoulos will complain :rolleyes:

On offense we have Mantzios-Roukavina-Petropoulos-NewStriker

We don't need to unload anyone because we are done unloading. Right? But on closer inspection we have:

7 defenders for 4 spots

3 DMs for 2 spots

7 AMs for 3 spots

4 Strikers for 1 spot

Well, this does not provide a good balance. I don't expect Antoniou to be this analytic, but I hope he reads some forums :P

The weakness here is that we have one too many strikers and one less DM than we should for proper balance. Sooo, we do need to unload one striker and buy another DM. Of course we could keep Leontiou and loan Petropoulos and we'll be set (as long as Leontiou can recover from his 2-year hiatus). If Leontiou can't go, we'll have to buy a fifth player to cover the DM position which will be most likely.

So there you have it. We sign 5 new players and we unload seven according to my calculations. Of course, none of this is what's going to happen, and the only certainty is that Panathinaikos fans will have something to be happy about and plenty to complain. Shoot away.

Edited by cyberfish

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Today a Turkish newspaper wrote PAO is interested in Galatasaray's right-wing back Sabri! I'm trying to find links in the new but hasn't been able to do so. Any news on the other side of the coast about this? Or just a typical sports-media-hyped bullshit rumour?

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heard nothing about Sabri.....cant find anything either

unfortunately for PAO, its probably another sports media bullshit........ :tdown:

:(

would be a great idea, but i cant see this management making an intelligent decision this summer like going after Sarioglou......well be lucky if were intelligent enough to buy a right back which we desperatey need..

Edited by drakos13

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well, the reason I wrote it down here without any links provided is, it sounded pretty feasible to me. Strangely, Sabri has a lot of clubs after him in Europe (scouts from Genoa, Fiorentina, Villarreal and Leverkusen have their tabs on him since January 2008) but he is not a figure that is liked by the CimBom fans because he's believed to have put nothing towards his development. And when names like Miguel and Seitaridis were thrown out last summer, all GS fans got pretty joyous as they thought they'd be getting rid of the dimunitive right-back.

as PAO could well be in the hunt for a right-back who can also play as a wide player, it sounded quite reasonable. but noone other than the silly Fotomac has written this so it's probably out-of-the window stuff.

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I hope we get two or three "game-changing" players this summer. It should not be too difficult but the transfer performance of the past two periods have made me skeptical.

In theory it should be easy to improve this team. Last year we packed a boat load of decent bench players and one starter. Now all we need is three or four undisputed starters that will elevate the team and even win a few games on their own. Last summer the board spent 24m on 10 players. Now if they are prepared to spend the same amount they can divide it among 4 or 5 players max.

To be realistic, I don't expect that they would ever spend over 10m on any one player, but I do expect to see us considering transfer fees around 7m for at least 3 players. I am pretty sure we can get some good talent for this kind of money. Maybe we can buy a CB for 5m, an AM/LW for 8, and a CF for another 8. Then we can spend 2-3m to upgrade our wingbacks (see how nicely I can spend other people's money :P )

Vgenopoulos gave an interview and said the budget is "unlimited" again, but they said the same thing about summer and winter transfers and then we saw them pulling back from offering a little extra for the likes of Pellerano or Givet, so it's hard to take their talk seriously.

Edited by cyberfish

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I hope we get two or three "game-changing" players this summer. It should not be too difficult but the transfer performance of the past two periods have made me skeptical.

In theory it should be easy to improve this team. Last year we packed a boat load of decent bench players and one starter. Now all we need is three or four undisputed starters that will elevate the team and even win a few games on their own. Last summer the board spent 24m on 10 players. Now if they are prepared to spend the same amount they can divide it among 4 or 5 players max.

To be realistic, I don't expect that they would ever spend over 10m on any one player, but I do expect to see us considering transfer fees around 7m for at least 3 players. I am pretty sure we can get some good talent for this kind of money. Maybe we can buy a CB for 5m, an AM/LW for 8, and a CF for another 8. Then we can spend 2-3m to upgrade our wingbacks (see how nicely I can spend other people's money :P )

Vgenopoulos gave an interview and said the budget is "unlimited" again, but they said the same thing about summer and winter transfers and then we saw them pulling back from offering a little extra for the likes of Pellerano or Givet, so it's hard to take their talk seriously.

According to the Greek media (novasports) we're interested in Djibril Cisse (Sunderland) and Zenden (Marseille). I'd be DELIGHTED with Cisse, but Zenden isn't great. Also, according to The Sun in Britain we're preparing a

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ERA sport is reporting that Nilsson signed with Brodby. I like Nilsson and I wish him luck in his new team. This opens the way to buying a new RB. Actually, with Nilsson gone, we need two RBs. I wish we could keep Nilsson but they say he wanted a two-year contract and PAO offered only one.

Pateras mentioned yesterday that we have 20-25 m for transfers this season and that the first signing will be announced at the end of May. Antoniou is abroad for players and no one knows where exactly he has gone. Kaimas of erasport said the first player will be from Argentina where Rotsa has been for a while now.

Here are the names I've seen in the news so far:

Cribari, Ivanovic, Goian, Arboleda, Seitaridis, Makos, Katsouranis, Padoin, Abelairas, Kranjcar, Santiago, Lewandowski, Nilmar, Jovanovic, Martins and it's only April :P

Edited by cyberfish

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First of, good luck to Mikael. He is a model professional and a good player. Not a fancy one, not the guy the fans would adore, but a good player nonetheless. And a very interesting guy: he was driving around in a PAO-rented Huyndai and loved going to the cinema and to rock concerts. Nothing like your average footballer with the pretentious attitude and the expensive cars! But, as much as I like the guy, we can find a much better RB. One than can cross the ball in Munch style. So, definitely not Seitaridis - oops, now I 'm not gonna hear the end of it!

As for the players Cyber mentioned: Ivanovic and Katsouranis are out of the question. The former has agreed terms with a Campionato side (most probably Fiorentina) and the latter has a clause in its contract that would make PAO pay 5 mil (!!) to AEK. Kranjar is a huge talent but he's most probably staying in England - most likely for the Spurs. And let me add the Argentinian Mouche from River - a great hot prospect with many caps for the U20's who seems to have impressed Rocha. They say that if he gets an EU passport he will sign immediately. He claims he will get it in a month's time - so perhaps Pateras had that transfer in mind during his latest statement to the press where he said that the first announcement will come around the end of May. Well, that's my info anyway! Check him out scoring a hat-trick with the NT:

In other news, Jovanovic allegedly met with Antoniou. This is the other story that actually could be true. Of course, the player seems to expect an offer from Barca for some reason! The story:

http://www.goalday.gr/article.asp?catid=10...3&pubid=2077415

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Nilsson was never a stable player at PAO. He had some strong games, and very bad ones. We needed to strengthen that position, and now it looks like well go and do that. About time.

Good Luck to him, but definitly a great move to drop him.

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I am watching the CL quarter finals and I hope we have Ivanonvic' signature because all of a sudden he scored two goals against Liverpool and he will be noticed by other clubs. I also hope we go after this Alex guy on defense. For offense I like this Tores kid. We need a CF and he would be perfect. I am sure many would like to go with a S. American striker, and some will try to be trolls by insisting on players like Nilmar and Bobo, but I think Tores would do well at PAO even though he wears a hairband. If we can also sign Riberi and Mesi it would be nice. I have mixed feelings about Messi because he would keep Ninis on the bench, but the little kid will have plenty of time when he grows up and I am pretty sure Messi would do well on the right wing for us. I think these signings would ease our pain from losing Nilsson :smartass:

Edited by cyberfish

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I am watching the CL quarter finals and I hope we have Ivanonvic' signature because all of a sudden he scored two goals against Liverpool and he will be noticed by other clubs. I also hope we go after this Alex guy on defense. For offense I like this Tores kid. We need a CF and he would be perfect. I am sure many would like to go with a S. American striker, and some will try to be trolls by insisting on players like Nilmar and Bobo, but I think Tores would do well at PAO even though he wears a hairband. If we can also sign Riberi and Mesi it would be nice. I have mixed feelings about Messi because he would keep Ninis on the bench, but the little kid will have plenty of time when he grows up and I am pretty sure Messi would do well on the right wing for us. I think these signings would ease our pain from losing Nilsson :smartass:

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

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I am watching the CL quarter finals and I hope we have Ivanonvic' signature because all of a sudden he scored two goals against Liverpool and he will be noticed by other clubs. I also hope we go after this Alex guy on defense. For offense I like this Tores kid. We need a CF and he would be perfect. I am sure many would like to go with a S. American striker, and some will try to be trolls by insisting on players like Nilmar and Bobo, but I think Tores would do well at PAO even though he wears a hairband. If we can also sign Riberi and Mesi it would be nice. I have mixed feelings about Messi because he would keep Ninis on the bench, but the little kid will have plenty of time when he grows up and I am pretty sure Messi would do well on the right wing for us. I think these signings would ease our pain from losing Nilsson :smartass:

cyber, just order me what you've drunk! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

great post! :)

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