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cyberfish

Summer 2009 transfers

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Now that we are only playing for second place the papers need to fill their pages with something. So, the rumors have started.

I read that Morris might be on his way back, and that Simao or Mattos or both might be sold.

Leondardo's agent is floating the rumor that he is a sure think for PAO (probably trying to get Ajax to bite on a contract offer) and the Seitaridis - Katsouranis talk began http://www.gazzetta.gr/content/view/27909/2/

Oh, yeah, there is the little detail that his team wants 2.5 million to release Seitaridi. I see the board searching for their checkbook already :rolleyes:

Edited by cyberfish

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selling Simao would be one of the stupidest moves this club could make.

Truth:

ITS WAY MORE EXPENSIVE AND DIFFICULT TO REPLACE A KEY PLAYER THAN TO KEEP ONE.

Simao should get WHATEVER he wants. He is our teams best player, and we can build a team with a player like that.

To replace such a player with the same quality is going to cost us a fortune, and likley months of time sorting through players we will not get, and end up with some RANDOM, Latin peice of garbage is most likely.

Same with Mantzios.

There is absolutley no point selling players you cant easily replace. In reality, Simao for PAO is almost irreplacable. Same with Mantzios. Sure there are players as good as them, but they will be:

Committed to other clubs

Expensive

Not willing to come to PAO

And not considered by PAO's brilliant transfer team. That leaves SLIM odds of us actually getting a replacement.

I mean seriously.

Were STILL looking for replacements for Kyrgiakos, Seitaridis, and Karagkounis we finally replaced, when KARAGKOUNIS HIMSELF came back.

Weve been through enough bullshit strikers to know that the good ones arent really replaceable.

If its Mantzios, or a new signing of this managements discression and funds, I'll take Mantzios everytime, than take the risk of a lemon whos not adjusted to the team doesnt settle or was never that good. We ditched Lybe and Gkekas for no reason (after they lead our team and league in scoring) and we still didnt really find replacements for them either.

I say:

Bring back Kyrgiakos. Hes for sale at the right price. Pay and make amends already and quit bullshitting the PAO fans with promises of new signings that end up being random latin losers or aged rejects. Enough of this. You want to please the fans? Then get PLAYERS, NOT NAMES and "stars" from exotic football famed nations.

Bring back Seitaridis. Him, Kyrgiakos, a reformed Vyntra, Spyro and Jakub? all of a sudden were sounding GOOD. Hes a great player, and will quickly get back into the swing of things.

Bring back Lyberopoulos. Hes old. Hes on the decline. But I see no reason for him not to finish his career playing the supersub role at PAO. We need a super sub, and face it he STILL puts results on the table and has experience. Rukavina is our supersub now, but face it the guy is overrated rubbish and not for 90 mins or real games.

The core of the 2001-2003 team STILL HAS IT. Buy them, theyre mostly available, and bring them back with the 2008-09 team.

Screw all the big names. Theyre not going to produce. Invest in established talent and players with heart and our existing players.

Personally I dont think we need more than 3 siginings this summer. Keep the squad, strengthen the back and a forward or maybe a mid if its promising. But this core of the team has talent, needs to overcome some shortcomings, they can definitly rebound next year and take the title - let this year be a learning experience and next year the real challenge. Otherwise.....We make wholesale changes, and lose the championship in Februrary next year.

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selling Simao would be one of the stupidest moves this club could make.

Not only would it be a mistake but it would confirm that Pateras is not at all ambitious. An ambitious club doesn't sell its best players.

Same with Mantzios.

Mantzios is nothing special and can easily be replaced.

Bring back Kyrgiakos.

I'm all for this. He's the best defender in the league, period.

Bring back Seitaridis. Him, Kyrgiakos, a reformed Vyntra, Spyro and Jakub? all of a sudden were sounding GOOD. Hes a great player, and will quickly get back into the swing of things.

:tup:

Bring back Lyberopoulos. Hes old. Hes on the decline. But I see no reason for him not to finish his career playing the supersub role at PAO. We need a super sub, and face it he STILL puts results on the table and has experience.

Not so sure about this, there are better players in his mould. Yes, theoretically he could have alot to offer off the bench, but in reality he'll probably require a big-ish salary and Pateras will try and portray him as a "bam". PAO need a proper proven goalscorer, a targetman, a Kovacevic if you will. If not, I'd like to see PAO get a big strong English style target man. Someone like Bentdner from Arsenal on loan... or if that's too ambitious how about James Beattie if Stoke get relegated. They got him for a mere

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I kind of agree with most points Drakos made.

Selling Simao would be criminal at this point.

But with Mantzios even though I'd like him to stay I would not be upset if he goes. No matter what, I think we need to bring in a proven scoring CF. I am not sure I want to wait another year for Mantzios to develop into a consistent scorer. It's such a crucial position that it would end up costing us another failed year. He has shown improvement in scoring but having him as the only CF makes me nervous since you never know which Mantzios will show up in the game. He is also very prone to injuries of all kinds.

Mattos is not going anywhere. All three have long term contracts and we need to retain the core of our team.

Truth is, if we expect 3 or 4 new players, we'll have to unload another 3 or 4.

I can only think of three players that I would not be upset to see gone next year: Gabriel, Moon, Melissis.

Melissis had a whole year to adjust to Panathinaikos level football and he has not impressed anyone. Gabriel is ok, but I think we can do better at RM where he has settled. Moon seems like a good bench player but he has also failed to impress me (besides the speed he has shown).

I don't know what shape Leontiou will be after his 2 year recovery so I can see him getting loaned out to get back in shape with playing time. I am also not sure how useful Goumas would be nearing 35, but I am not in favor of unloading veterans.

The way things are right now, everyone has a long term contract, which means it will be hard to let them go won't be easy. The only contract that expires this summer is Sariegi's and Nilsson's, and only three contracts expire next summer (2010): Goumas, Salpigidis, Tziolis (if he hasn't restructured with his loan). I'd like Sariegi to stay. Despite the fact that I think we need a much better CB, he would be a good player to have on the bench.

But while we think from our homes, let's not forget the players' desires. If a player like Simao gets a huge offer from a better league and wants to go badly, I'd like to see the team make him a similar offer to retain him like they did with Mattos last summer. But if a player wants to go to a better league, then I'd feel bad to prevent him from advancing his career.

I do think Panathinaikos should be able to bring in similar or better replacement for each outgoing player.

As for buying players, I like to see PAO bring players who are not just talented, but players who are football smart, and players who have a winning attitude. Players like Munch who you could tell he had amazing pride and did not like losing even a singe battle on the pitch.

I have been saying for years that we need some height in CB and in CF. Without height we are limiting our game.

I'd also like to see a player who can play on the line either left or right. We need to be able to stretch these defenses and with our current AM squad everyone just cuts inward helping the defenders bunch up in front of goal. Then we complain why we can't break down tight defenses.

As for the floating names, I have mixed feelings about Seitaridis. Before he left he looked very nonchalant to me and his play down the wing was full of crosses to the stands. He has grown enormously as a defender since he left and we haven't been able to replace him in any way. But I'd question his winning attitude. If he comes back and fights like a dog for every ball, then welcome. If he wants to come back to play like a government worker, we can look elsewhere.

Kyriakos I wanted last year. He would have been a huge improvement for our defense. But he is at AEK now and it won't happen, so no need to mention him.

Katsouranis would be a good player because I value his skill, leadership and winning attitude. But we are loaded at CM. I am not sure we can fit another one and I don't think he would be such a huge upgrade over Simao, Mattos, or Gilberto. Playing with 2 CM all the time does allow for a 4-player rotation over the season though. If we can get him, I say go for it.

At CF I'd like a player like Voronin. Give the big money for a player who can make a difference every single game. I'd like to see a player who has proven himself in Euro play since I don't trust the scoring stats of south american players where defenses are soft.

The way our team is right now, if I had 20 m. to spend this summer I would give up to 10 m for a CF, 3 for a CB, and I would split the other 7 between a CM and a wing man.

Edited by cyberfish

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-------------------------Galinovic-------------------------

------------Kyrgiakos-------------Vyntra-----------------

---Giourkas-----------------------------Wawryzniak-----

--------------Mate-----------------Mattos-----------------

------------------------Gilberto----------------------------

----Karagounis----------------------------Rodriguez-----

--------------------------Mantzios--------------------------

- Ivanschitz

- Gabriel

- Salpingidis

- Josu (if kept, if not some 30+ versatile CB/WB who can come in & do the job when called upon ex. if lured away, Zebina)

- Lazaros X'd

- Captain

- Spyro

doesn't at all look like a bad squad.. two key signings in my opinion;

1- a LW/LF who can create.. neither Salp nor X'd is good enough for Euro play yet.. (Rodriguez from Porto? can well be snapped around €2M or what about Tello from Beşiktaş whose contract ends May 31?)

2- this one is not a must but if a better-functioning player than Mantzios can be found, he can be signed. but the board has to be careful and not go for big reputation.. or else we could have another Guiza in here.. :LOL:

and finally, man... James Beattie?! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

how about bringing a-105-kg-Ronaldo at 33? :LOL:

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Oh, man JS1905 you forgot Ninis. You are toast :LOL:

:LOL: :LOL:

yeah, I was so much into putting up a team I lost concentration :LOL: :LOL:

Goian? It's not the Steaua dude who is something like 2, 55 centimetres-tall, is it?

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and finally, man... James Beattie?! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

how about bringing a-105-kg-Ronaldo at 33? :LOL:

:blink: Beattie is class.

I heard about Goian today. He's not PAO material. These are stupid signings! I like the idea of bringing back Seitaridis. He's a class above Nilsson. I also like the idea of Katsouranis being signed, ideally in a rotation role with Gilberto. I fear that if he comes that'll spell the end of Simao by giving the board an excuse to sell him. I don't want Lybe though, there's no point.

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Ninis has been linked with Arsenal & Bayern Munich in the last 7 days. Just wondering if he'll ever get a shot here before he's shipped out?

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Ninis has been linked with Arsenal & Bayern Munich in the last 7 days. Just wondering if he'll ever get a shot here before he's shipped out?

I think that's just bs rumours to be honest. I live in the UK and the only place I've heard about Arsenal and Ninis in the last 7 days is from Novasports :rolleyes: So don't pay too much attention to that. But Simao leaving is alot more realistic as he's featured - and impressed - in the Champions League.

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Arsenal will never look to leagues like Turkey, Greece or even Italy to sign players unless they are of completely top-quality class like Eduardo... The reason is not that these leagues are bad, but simply too slow for Wenger's system of play. So, he will go and sign a France-based player, who is ten times less skilled than Ninis but we will see in shock that the crap Frenchman will do wonders at Arsenal...

FC Bayern is believed to be in for Arda of Galatasaray and if that happens I would personally go forNinis as his replacement at Gala..

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Cyber, Mantzios has been a good player at the level we need for the last 2 years, but people wont give him the chance. He was class vs Villareal, hes got it in him. He just doesnt rack up the goals like wildfire, but no doubt our offense is way better than him.

Think about it. We spend a few milion for Souza who is nowhere even close to as good as Mantzios. Mantzios is unsellable. Hell cost far more to actually replace in terms of time and money, vs his cost hed sell for which will be likley nothing worthwhile. Its a horrible decision to sell him.

Simao, to find somebody as good as him and that will actually PERFORM is extremely rare for PAO. We need to get a grip with reality our signing team is absolutley pathetic, and we dont have the recources/staff/scout/money networks to properly replace key players. So it actually makes more sense economically (all factors considered) to just suck it up and pay what the player will stay for.

I am terrified were going to sell key players this year, and buy some more LatinAmerican "name" or worse, the "prospect" who comes and amounts to nothing as usual. Face it. There are many good players PAO can get. But its not about talent, its about them PERFORMING and ADJUSTING. If they cant do that, theres asboltuley no point to spending money on a signing. And most players from abroad and these random foreigners cant do that very well. It costs time.

I really only want to see maximum 4 transfers this year. Wholesaling exchanging the teams players and replacing will put us right back in the fight for 2nd place in December. This team IS good. They arent consistent yet. Weve seen there very capable with a few minor upgrades, and 1 more season I really think this current team could take the protathlima with 1 year experience that they have now, and also make another decent CL run.

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Cyber regarding Mantzios you've got to be kidding me, right? I'm not even going to comment on that. This team really doesn't need that many players for next year; we already have a good pool of talent and we'll be fine with a couple more defenders. I would also like to see Tziolis come back and it wouldn't hurt to sell Gilberto because he's not that spectacular and TC probably feels the pressure to play him because they spent so much money on him. But then you have talented guys like Mattos just sitting around on the bench who can deliver just as well. Thats what happens when you pay for a name as opposed to a talent.

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selling Simao would be one of the stupidest moves this club could make.

Truth:

ITS WAY MORE EXPENSIVE AND DIFFICULT TO REPLACE A KEY PLAYER THAN TO KEEP ONE.

Simao should get WHATEVER he wants. He is our teams best player, and we can build a team with a player like that.

To replace such a player with the same quality is going to cost us a fortune, and likley months of time sorting through players we will not get, and end up with some RANDOM, Latin peice of garbage is most likely.

Same with Mantzios.

There is absolutley no point selling players you cant easily replace. In reality, Simao for PAO is almost irreplacable. Same with Mantzios. Sure there are players as good as them, but they will be:

Committed to other clubs

Expensive

Not willing to come to PAO

And not considered by PAO's brilliant transfer team. That leaves SLIM odds of us actually getting a replacement.

I mean seriously.

Were STILL looking for replacements for Kyrgiakos, Seitaridis, and Karagkounis we finally replaced, when KARAGKOUNIS HIMSELF came back.

Weve been through enough bullshit strikers to know that the good ones arent really replaceable.

If its Mantzios, or a new signing of this managements discression and funds, I'll take Mantzios everytime, than take the risk of a lemon whos not adjusted to the team doesnt settle or was never that good. We ditched Lybe and Gkekas for no reason (after they lead our team and league in scoring) and we still didnt really find replacements for them either.

I say:

Bring back Kyrgiakos. Hes for sale at the right price. Pay and make amends already and quit bullshitting the PAO fans with promises of new signings that end up being random latin losers or aged rejects. Enough of this. You want to please the fans? Then get PLAYERS, NOT NAMES and "stars" from exotic football famed nations.

Bring back Seitaridis. Him, Kyrgiakos, a reformed Vyntra, Spyro and Jakub? all of a sudden were sounding GOOD. Hes a great player, and will quickly get back into the swing of things.

Bring back Lyberopoulos. Hes old. Hes on the decline. But I see no reason for him not to finish his career playing the supersub role at PAO. We need a super sub, and face it he STILL puts results on the table and has experience. Rukavina is our supersub now, but face it the guy is overrated rubbish and not for 90 mins or real games.

The core of the 2001-2003 team STILL HAS IT. Buy them, theyre mostly available, and bring them back with the 2008-09 team.

Screw all the big names. Theyre not going to produce. Invest in established talent and players with heart and our existing players.

Personally I dont think we need more than 3 siginings this summer. Keep the squad, strengthen the back and a forward or maybe a mid if its promising. But this core of the team has talent, needs to overcome some shortcomings, they can definitly rebound next year and take the title - let this year be a learning experience and next year the real challenge. Otherwise.....We make wholesale changes, and lose the championship in Februrary next year.

That one! Yeah, good.

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I really only want to see maximum 4 transfers this year. Wholesaling exchanging the teams players and replacing will put us right back in the fight for 2nd place in December. This team IS good. They arent consistent yet. Weve seen there very capable with a few minor upgrades, and 1 more season I really think this current team could take the protathlima with 1 year experience that they have now, and also make another decent CL run.

Agreed on just about everything. I was not trying to downplay Mantzios' improvement. He has improved dramatically this season. But I'd feel better to have a second, equally as good CF to increase competition in the position. Would I be upset if Mantzios leaves for a better league? No. Would I be upset if Simao leaves for a better league? No. If the scouting team does their job we'll never notice.

Your last part reflects my thoughts exactly. 4 new players: CB, RB, CF, W (L or R). If Katsouranis signs on top of that, then ok.

Edited by cyberfish

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I want Giourkas back for one reason and one reason alone: I need to know whether the halfwits who call themselves fans will still call him names every time he misplaces a cross like they did back in 2004. Unfortunately, I 'm old enough to remember these things. And, while I know a 'real' PAO fan is not allowed to talk like that, I don't consider Kyrgiakos a great defender. He's good but there are better CBs out there. I really don't know why some people are so obsessed with this guy, he's nothing special imo.

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I really only want to see maximum 4 transfers this year. Wholesaling exchanging the teams players and replacing will put us right back in the fight for 2nd place in December. This team IS good. They arent consistent yet. Weve seen there very capable with a few minor upgrades, and 1 more season I really think this current team could take the protathlima with 1 year experience that they have now, and also make another decent CL run.

Agreed on just about everything. I was not trying to downplay Mantzios' improvement. He has improved dramatically this season. But I'd feel better to have a second, equally as good CF to increase competition in the position. Would I be upset if Mantzios leaves for a better league? No. Would I be upset if Simao leaves for a better league? No. If the scouting team does their job we'll never notice.

Your last part reflects my thoughts exactly. 4 new players: CB, RB, CF, W (L or R). If Katsouranis signs on top of that, then ok.

they never do their job, and they dont have the resources to do their job properly anyways.

Simao isnt replaceable. Look at what happened to Real when Makelele left. These type of maniac 90 min hustling players are extremley RARE.

Not only are they rare - PAO would have to find one that:

Adjusts and performs

Is willing to come to PAO

Within PAO's actual constraints for budget on one player.

And all this using PAO's staff.

The odds of replacing a Simao are extremely LOW. It makes more sense to pay off what he needs if you think economically, because were just going to go through several more players in and out over the years struggling to replace him. Same will go with Mantzios. We finally found a decent striker who can use his head and plays great on the ball - what on earth would you go around selling him for now. KEEP good players.

New signings are majority BUSTS. If we need a new striker (we do need a partner for Mantzios) send away RUKAVINA, we dont need him, I dont really see him becoming part of PAO's future squads, hes a decent substitute at best.

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I don't think Simao or Mantzios will be sold. Simao had his contract restructured and Mantzios just started showing his talent. Both have two and three years left in their contract and from all appearances management wants to keep both. They will be some interest from abroad though since they both played very well in europe.

I don't want to aggravate those who hate Ten Cate, but he should be getting some credit for reviving some players this year. Unfortunately, everyone loves to talk about those who sits on the bench though. Vintra was the most hated PAO player (probably since Maragos) and now everyone agrees that he has been our best defender by far. Simao was working against long odds with two very expensive players (Mattos-Gilberto) ahead of him, but the coach reworded the youngster who worked hard. Matzios was ready to be shipped out to another team last summer but Ten Cate was the one who liked him and even played him ahead of last summer's most expensive transfer (Sousa). He has given equal chances to all the other players. Some took advantage of these chances, some didn't.

Back to the transfers, it's interesting that we've read about Nilsson signing a new contract, but it's interesting that we have not read jack about Sariegi re-signing. He is free

Who do you guys think should be unloaded to bring in 4 new players? Do you think loaning Leontiou and David would be a good idea? David is holding a "foreign" spot by the way.

Also, out of the loaned players (Malartz, Morris, Tziolis) who do you think should return?

Edited by cyberfish

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Ok, a few spelling errors in my last post I have to apologize about :rolleyes: I also starter writing something about Sariegi but after a little research I found out that his contract expires next year and not this summer.

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lets act like a big club & keep the likes of Simao, sell Matos & Cleyton. Get a new defence, Sign 1 more prolific goal scorer & move on to our winning ways. WTF this club earned the money!

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lets act like a big club & keep the likes of Simao, sell Matos & Cleyton. Get a new defence, Sign 1 more prolific goal scorer & move on to our winning ways. WTF this club earned the money!

Very true! Although I want to keep Mattos too.

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After last night, its clear Nilsson has no place on this team. Major liability and utterly mediocre player for years now. Cut him loose.

Sariegui is also not the calibre player we need. Upgrade.

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Very true! Although I want to keep Mattos too.

i too would love to see Matos stay as well, i just dont see how they keep both of them. Maybe Simao will be sold since they can get more money for him.

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