Basketball - Beijing

[loup]

nbc is streaming stuff -- however you have to be in the US to watch it --- I don't know but maybe there is a way around that-- if anyone knows could you getback to us

[loup]

i am watching cbc.ca - live boxing - right now

[loup]

USA network is carying the SPain Greece match live in the US -- dont think it is available in Canada

[Sharpos]

Spain - Greece 81:66 <_< poor display by the ethniki what i heard. We just dont play well against the spaniards, they have figured us out somehow. A final spot seems very far away right now :(

[loup]

Box score indicates free throws were the difference, we had about the same amount they hit something like 22-25 and we were 11-24 , or something around that -- I did not see the game though

[paxiotis7]

I was really mad i missed this game. And even more pissed when i saw the result.

Can anyone who watched the game gimme a litle recap? What are your guys opinions? Can we bounce back?

[Kolokotronis]

Spain is a flat out better team. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Anytime you lose to an opponent four consecutive times by an average margin of 15 points or so, its safe to assume they're better.

Missed free throws and poor field goal shooting were the two main culprits. As for the former, its all our damn fault. With respect to the latter, a lot if it has to do with Spain's excellent perimeter defense. They simply didn't give us many good looks at the basket from the perimeter.

Spain also had a big edge in the low post with the Gasol brothers. We simply don't have that type of low post presence. If they needed a basket, they threw the ball in to Pau.

Rudy basically had hs way with us. We couldn't find a way to stop the guy on the perimeter.

For us, the only guy who played well and kept us in the game was Spanoulis. Consistently beat the Spanish guards off the dribble and took the ball to the hole.

[loup]

All losses are bad but the truth is the goal is simply to get to the next round, beating out China or Germany. It really doesnt matter who we play from the other side, Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia and Russia are all pretty equal, and it will be impossible to guess how they will finish up.

Look at the past EURO, Spain destroyed in the early round but we almost, should have, beat the Spaniards in the semis. In '05 Slovania beat us by 12.

Good news is that we beat both Germany and China easily in knockout games in the recent past.

BTW Expect a 25 point loss to the US in a couple of days too.

[loup]

Game vs Germany will be streamed here

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/livevideo/

[Nick99]

So frustrating the way Spain owns us, I agree, they are flat out a better team, cooler shooters and better defense, and many weapons. I really hope we don't have to meet them in the knock-out rounds, or if we do, only if we kick it up a notch like the Euro semis last year when we almost pulled it off.

Still, I think we can beat the USA. And as loup puts it any team in the other pool is gonna be almost equally tough, they're all quality.

Thanks for the CBC streaming link, glad we can watch the Germany game. I think the Greece-USA one will be on TV.

[Kolokotronis]

So frustrating the way Spain owns us, I agree, they are flat out a better team, cooler shooters and better defense, and many weapons. I really hope we don't have to meet them in the knock-out rounds, or if we do, only if we kick it up a notch like the Euro semis last year when we almost pulled it off.

Still, I think we can beat the USA. And as loup puts it any team in the other pool is gonna be almost equally tough, they're all quality.

Thanks for the CBC streaming link, glad we can watch the Germany game. I think the Greece-USA one will be on TV.

so what you're saying is that Spain is a better team than the US?

[paxiotis7]

^ i would say they are yes.

At the international game. Spain work way better as a team. The usa are way individual for the international game. In an international game the defence is tighter and harder to penetrate. The us cant do it as good as the spanish. Spain are gooing to win gold this tournament unless a team like lithuania or greece get lucky. It wont be usa.

[Nick99]

So frustrating the way Spain owns us, I agree, they are flat out a better team, cooler shooters and better defense, and many weapons. I really hope we don't have to meet them in the knock-out rounds, or if we do, only if we kick it up a notch like the Euro semis last year when we almost pulled it off.

Still, I think we can beat the USA. And as loup puts it any team in the other pool is gonna be almost equally tough, they're all quality.

Thanks for the CBC streaming link, glad we can watch the Germany game. I think the Greece-USA one will be on TV.

so what you're saying is that Spain is a better team than the US?

I think Spain can beat USA. I also think they're better as a 'team'. I think USA is fragile, if things start not to go their way, nerves can set in and they can collapse, in any given game against the quality European teams, not so much against Argentina I think.

Even against China, tied 29-29 so late in the 2nd quarter, then a dumb palming turnover by the Chinese guard. It took the Americans a while before putting the contest to rest, and China is not strong. A team like Greece, or Spain or Lithuania hanging around within striking distance for 25-30 minutes, look out.

Love em or hate em, Spain is solid, with very few, if any weaknesses, unless their constant diving and whining gets them off their own game, but it never seems to, with the exception perhaps of last year's Euro final vs. Russia, and even then, they lost only at the very end.

I still like Greece's chances, but if we meet Spain along the way, we'll need a near-perfect game to beat them. Vs. USA, I don't think we need to be perfect, a few timely steals and blocks out of nowhere (which we are very wily and capable enough to execute) and the nerves set in on the US side.

Is it just me or did yesterday's victory vs. China not look particularly enjoyable to the 'world's best player'? Can it be he didn't like lessers like Wade and Howard, or even King James stealing his spotlight?

[Nick99]

^ i would say they are yes.

At the international game. Spain work way better as a team. The usa are way individual for the international game. In an international game the defence is tighter and harder to penetrate. The us cant do it as good as the spanish. Spain are gooing to win gold this tournament unless a team like lithuania or greece get lucky. It wont be usa.

I agree, but I think USA has a chance if they put the egos aside. Did you notice how it appeared they thought they could win the game on the opening tipoff, going for a basket only 2 seconds in? Only to boot it out of bounds and turn it over to China.

When the Americans try more to win with basic smart ball instead of attempting to embarrass their opponents, they'll have a shot.

[plato-ny]

Not to go off-topic but those Spaniards are racists

Regarding the Greece-Spain match, poor free throw shooting will always kill any team no matter how well that team is playing. But, what also hurt Greece was their defense, which allowed more points in this match than in the horrid FIBA WC 2006 final and that in itsef was a terrible performance. Greece has now been blown out twice by Spain in back-to-back major international tournaments.

Greece had that magical run in Eurobasket 2005 where they won the gold and lost only once, and made it to the final of FIBA WC 2006, which included a historic win over the USA and going undefeated in the toughest division. Since that USA match, where they had their heads inflated, the Greek National Team has not been the same.

That win over USA is looking like some kind of curse with Greece playing lackluster basketball against Spain in the FIBA WC 2006 final, continuing the same performance and unimpressively reaching 4th place in Eurobasket 2007, and doing so yet again versus Spain. In hindsight, the win against the USA might be the worst thing that has happened to the Greek NT in the last few years.

Greece-Spain highlights

[Kolokotronis]

^ i would say they are yes.

At the international game. Spain work way better as a team. The usa are way individual for the international game. In an international game the defence is tighter and harder to penetrate. The us cant do it as good as the spanish. Spain are gooing to win gold this tournament unless a team like lithuania or greece get lucky. It wont be usa.

what happened the last time these two met?

[Kolokotronis]

So frustrating the way Spain owns us, I agree, they are flat out a better team, cooler shooters and better defense, and many weapons. I really hope we don't have to meet them in the knock-out rounds, or if we do, only if we kick it up a notch like the Euro semis last year when we almost pulled it off.

Still, I think we can beat the USA. And as loup puts it any team in the other pool is gonna be almost equally tough, they're all quality.

Thanks for the CBC streaming link, glad we can watch the Germany game. I think the Greece-USA one will be on TV.

so what you're saying is that Spain is a better team than the US?

I think Spain can beat USA. I also think they're better as a 'team'. I think USA is fragile, if things start not to go their way, nerves can set in and they can collapse, in any given game against the quality European teams, not so much against Argentina I think.

Even against China, tied 29-29 so late in the 2nd quarter, then a dumb palming turnover by the Chinese guard. It took the Americans a while before putting the contest to rest, and China is not strong. A team like Greece, or Spain or Lithuania hanging around within striking distance for 25-30 minutes, look out.

Love em or hate em, Spain is solid, with very few, if any weaknesses, unless their constant diving and whining gets them off their own game, but it never seems to, with the exception perhaps of last year's Euro final vs. Russia, and even then, they lost only at the very end.

I still like Greece's chances, but if we meet Spain along the way, we'll need a near-perfect game to beat them. Vs. USA, I don't think we need to be perfect, a few timely steals and blocks out of nowhere (which we are very wily and capable enough to execute) and the nerves set in on the US side.

Is it just me or did yesterday's victory vs. China not look particularly enjoyable to the 'world's best player'? Can it be he didn't like lessers like Wade and Howard, or even King James stealing his spotlight?

How and why do you think Spain can beat this US side when they couldn't beat a US B Team last time they played?

I understand anything can happen in a one game knockout, but based on overall quality, US is in a different league.

Let me put it to you this way-outside of POSSIBLY Pau Gasol, there isn't one single Spanish starter that can start for the US.

[Kolokotronis]

So frustrating the way Spain owns us, I agree, they are flat out a better team, cooler shooters and better defense, and many weapons. I really hope we don't have to meet them in the knock-out rounds, or if we do, only if we kick it up a notch like the Euro semis last year when we almost pulled it off.

Still, I think we can beat the USA. And as loup puts it any team in the other pool is gonna be almost equally tough, they're all quality.

Thanks for the CBC streaming link, glad we can watch the Germany game. I think the Greece-USA one will be on TV.

so what you're saying is that Spain is a better team than the US?

I think Spain can beat USA. I also think they're better as a 'team'. I think USA is fragile, if things start not to go their way, nerves can set in and they can collapse, in any given game against the quality European teams, not so much against Argentina I think.

Even against China, tied 29-29 so late in the 2nd quarter, then a dumb palming turnover by the Chinese guard. It took the Americans a while before putting the contest to rest, and China is not strong. A team like Greece, or Spain or Lithuania hanging around within striking distance for 25-30 minutes, look out.

Love em or hate em, Spain is solid, with very few, if any weaknesses, unless their constant diving and whining gets them off their own game, but it never seems to, with the exception perhaps of last year's Euro final vs. Russia, and even then, they lost only at the very end.

I still like Greece's chances, but if we meet Spain along the way, we'll need a near-perfect game to beat them. Vs. USA, I don't think we need to be perfect, a few timely steals and blocks out of nowhere (which we are very wily and capable enough to execute) and the nerves set in on the US side.

Is it just me or did yesterday's victory vs. China not look particularly enjoyable to the 'world's best player'? Can it be he didn't like lessers like Wade and Howard, or even King James stealing his spotlight?

I didn't ask you if you THINK Spain can beat the US, or if you WANT Spain to beat the US. I asked you if Spain is a better team than the US. And if so, why?

The last time these two met, the US B Team won. So what do you base your assumption on?

The US team is "fragile"? These guys play in the worlds most competitive league and you think they're fragile? You think guys like Kobe or Le Bron are fragile?

Holy cripes! i've heard everything.

THIS US team is not the same collection b and c list stars that used to come to internationla competitions. Nor are they 22-23 year old pups anymore playing together for the first time with 2-3 weeks preparation.

I'm just amazed at how the Anti-Americanism oozes out of peoples pores when it comes to basketball.

The US beats China by 30+ and people are looking for kinks in the armor. Maybe the US should have built a 25 point lead in the first 10 minutes. Would that have satisfied you?

I love all this talk about "wait till the US plays the REAL Euro powers". Well they did, and trounced them last week. Russia by 20+ and Lithuania by 35. Or are you going to tell me Russia and Lithuania are no good either?

Outside of one magical game where everything went right for Greece and everything went wrong for the US, what in God's name makes you think Greece can beat the US again? Remember, we only beat them by 6 last time.

In the last Olympics, Puerto Rico, which is basically the Hispanic All Stars from NYC, beat the US by TWENTY!!! Does that mean that Puerto Rico is better than the US?

For God's sake people, get a clue.

Or at least listen to aek66. Granted there are big differences between the FIBA and NBA games, and anything can happen in one game, but common sense tells you who the best team is.

The nerves will set in for the US against us? LOL!!!! Just like they set in for Spain the other day against us? We beat them ONCE in our entire basketball history, and now we can definitively beat them? Jesus, I need a drink.

[Kolokotronis]

^ i would say they are yes.

At the international game. Spain work way better as a team. The usa are way individual for the international game. In an international game the defence is tighter and harder to penetrate. The us cant do it as good as the spanish. Spain are gooing to win gold this tournament unless a team like lithuania or greece get lucky. It wont be usa.

I agree, but I think USA has a chance if they put the egos aside. Did you notice how it appeared they thought they could win the game on the opening tipoff, going for a basket only 2 seconds in? Only to boot it out of bounds and turn it over to China.

When the Americans try more to win with basic smart ball instead of attempting to embarrass their opponents, they'll have a shot.

They have a "shot" at beating Spain?

When is the last time Spain beat the US?

[IRAKLIS]

Spain exposed Greece's biggest weakness as usual and that is why they are always able to beat us. Greece is terrible at breaking an inbounding press, they are not fast enough with the ball to break a press and move it up court. The only player on Greece capable of crossing over a player an accelorating is Spanoulis. However, our movement off the ball in setting screens to free up players on press break plays is way to slow. As a result, you saw Greece struggling to get the ball up court and when they finally did we could barely get the ball past the 3 point line because of the high pressure.

When I was watching USA vs China in the second have the americans were doing a Diamond Press where your number 1 stands infront of the inbounder and the 2 and 3 are on the sides covering the left and right just behind the 1.

If the USA presses greece we are screwed and be prepared for a thrashing. Only problem with pressing is it is tiring but I am sure the Americans are in great physical shape.

Anyway Spain is a better team than Greece and they know how to exploit our weaknesses well, they are also very fast in comparision to Lithuania, Russia and Argentina. Greece is a top class team I am certain we will pick up our game tonight and we will go through. People need to be realistic beating the USA 1x only!!!! in the history of the ethniki does not make us favourites or the best team in the world. In addition, I cant even remember the last time we beat spain so lets support our boys and not rip their heads off when they lose to teams that are better than they are!

PS- Papaloukas needs to wake the hell up

[Kolokotronis]

I'm not sure if the Americans are cohesive enough just yet in any press, full court, three quarter court, or half court, but they're still a bitch to play against if they go to the diamond and one press. Their athletes at 1-4 are far superior to anybody in the rest of the world.

The only way to beat a press is to pass through it, but the Americans are so long and athletic that sometimes that's not an option. Also, their bench is MUCH stronger this year than it has been in the past. They can go 10 deep NO PROBLEM.

[loup]

what b squads are you referring to?

what years did they send b squads?

2006 was so-so - Hinrich?????? was a terrible selection

But the 2004 team? how was that a b-squad?

Centers: Tim Duncan, Emeka Okafor

Forwards: Carmelo Anthony, Carlos Boozer, Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James

Guards: Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Dwyane Wade

Head Coach: Larry Brown

Garnett, Kidd and Shaq had retired from interantional ball by then (this happens in basketball and soccer for many countries) and Kobe was busy facing rape charges. So is this a B squad?

Okafor was a kid and a bad pick

The forwards and guards have all played in all star games, except odom I think

The chemistry was terrible and the players did not mesh no thanks to a poor coaching job by Larry Brown, but this was a talented team that lost 3 times in the games, including by 19 to Puerto Rico

There was no doubt in either of those tournaments, or the 2002 world championships that the US squad was head and shoulders above the rest of the teams as far as talent, and they did not win

Only a handfull of non-American players in the past decade would have any chance of making these squads- Gasol, Nowitski, Ginobli, and Nash come to mind. But the results remain the same.

Are they the most talented team again ? no doubt

-------

As far as our Ethniki goes, we are slow.

Over the years, I have been amazed at how bad Papaloukas can play at times, considering how well he can play.

Look we were 4th in Europe and had to qualify at home in a special tournament, so all of a sudden thinking that we are going to have no problems with Argentina , the Us or the other European teams is ludicrous.

[Kolokotronis]

The US may have been head and shoudlers above the rest of the world in talent, but it still wasn't their best.

Okafor was picked because of the silly insistence on taking one collegiate.

James, Anthony, and Wade were just kids then.

Marbury and Iverson had no business being on the team, much the less together.

Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Kidd, etc.... may have all valid excuses for not being there, but nonetheless, they ALL deserved and would have had a spot. Hell, they had no true center on the team, with Tim Duncan miscast in the role.

Kirk Hinrich is nothing more than a role player ...... on the Bulls!

The fact is, outside of the original Dream Team, the US has ALWAYS sent less than their best. ALWAYS.

The fact that the third and fourth best of the US is still better than what the rest of the world has to offer is a testament to the amount of talent found in the States. Nonetheless, it doesn't vitiate the fact that they have never sent their best outside of the original dream team.

Heck, they never had an official USNT basketball program until two years ago, but I'm sure very few people on here know that. They would simply pick a couple of NBA players, throw them together for 2-3 weeks, and tell them go win the Gold.

[paxiotis7]

Its at the end of the first Quarter of the Germany Greece game. This greece team is so frustrating. They come out really strong with alot of engery and are doing great. I think at theyre best they were up 14-5. But now the score is 23-21. The defending and the rebounding is HORRIBLE. Were alowing way to many 3 balls.

:box:

[paxiotis7]

Heck, they never had an official USNT basketball program until two years ago, but I'm sure very few people on here know that. They would simply pick a couple of NBA players, throw them together for 2-3 weeks, and tell them go win the Gold.

And yeah I knew that. They started the program for mundobasket 06