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Sokratis Papastathopoulos ‒ Betis Sevilla


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i understand what you mean greekfreak and i know thats dortmunds playstyle but as the new "abwehrchef" or leader in the back he should have done better. also i see to much miscommunication between the defenders when they play the offside trap. sometimes sokratis sets it and bartra or ginter dont use it. same go's for manolas , he also leader in the back for roma. i know dortmund has sort of a new team and coach and are still building. they will grow every match. and maybe i am a bit to harsch but thats how i see it.

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On 28/09/2016 at 3:55 PM, Akritis_1944 said:

Probably true, but generally both Sokratis and Manolas for so-called World class defenders do make some poor plays. 

They need to improve their concentration. They are both supreme athletes but they are prone to basic giveaways and concentration lapses. We see it too regularly for the NT.

There is a reason bayern picked up hummels and not sokratis, or why wenger got mustafi instead of manolas and why mourinho picked up bailli

Sokratis and manolas are good defenders but they are not first tier talents. Between them, the only thing that's world class is manolas pace

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You ultimately might be right, but I rate both of them as good as good as, if not better than the players you mention. I think we are all disappointed at the inconsistency of both of them primarily for the Ethniki. They should be brick walls against the teams we've faced over the last 12 months but they clearly have been anything but and probably been our worst players.

I think for both Sokratis and Manolas this season is where they need to lift their game to world class levels. 

Also I think they are at different stages in their careers. Like Pana97 said, the English commentators were singing Sokratis praises against Real. It's not like he was playing against Ingolstadt in the German cup. This was against the reigning Champions League winners and he was very good in my opinion.

Manolas on the other hand has clearly been distracted at the hype of a big move and he's been erratic. I personally think he needs a new challenge to a bigger club in a stronger league where he's surrounded by better players. That would show good he really is in my opinion.

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there aren't that many defenders better than manolas and sokratis, that's for sure.

but obvious one's are = chiellini, ramos, hummels, tiago silva, boatang

there's a reason why these guys are known world wide and our boys not as many.

you can only count on one hand that has a duo equivalent or better than our duo, namely = italy and germany

Edited by georgelaz
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^^

On 30/09/2016 at 10:15 PM, aek66 said:

i want to say the reason that wenger got mustafi is because wenger failed to get manolas at a discount price.

It could be that wenger rated mustafi higher

If roma's demands were what was been reported then they are ridicules to say the least, especially for manolas. If that's the case, then wenger did the right thing.

 

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11 minutes ago, ThrylosG7 said:

Bonnucci , Thiago Silva , Boateng , Chiellini , Pique , Ramos , Hummels , - are the cream of the crop 

Then you have the next level players - Like Pepe , Otamendi mangala ,Vertonghen, Koscielny , Barzagli , probably another 4 or 5 I have forgotten..

The question is do Sokratis and Manolas belong in the second group - no way re they in that first group...

 

1st tier) You are missing varane. He joins that elite group with ramos, hummels, bonucci and chiellini. I would take any of these guys over boateng as he makes silly decisions but he is still part of this group.

Thiago silva has regressed, he is no longer part of that elite.

2nd tier)Pepe, barzali, godin, otamendi, bailli, alderwield etc

3rd tier) manolas, sokratis, mangala etc

 

 

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On ‎2016‎-‎09‎-‎30 at 6:48 AM, val said:

There is a reason bayern picked up hummels and not sokratis, or why wenger got mustafi instead of manolas and why mourinho picked up bailli

Sokratis and manolas are good defenders but they are not first tier talents. Between them, the only thing that's world class is manolas pace

It is well understood that Manolas and Sokratis are first tier, world class.

Ask anyone in Italy and Manolas is in the same conversation as the 3 Juventus CBs.

General consensus in Bundesliga is that Sokratis right behind Hummels and Boateng, very hard to argue otherwise. He is on their level there is no doubt and the reason Bayern got Hummels over Sokratis is because Hummels is a German with pedigree and the signing is perceived as more prestigious than signing the Greek.

 

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎01 at 11:26 PM, ThrylosG7 said:

Bonnucci , Thiago Silva , Boateng , Chiellini , Pique , Ramos , Hummels , - are the cream of the crop 

Then you have the next level players - Like Pepe , Otamendi mangala ,Vertonghen, Koscielny , Barzagli , probably another 4 or 5 I have forgotten..

The question is do Sokratis and Manolas belong in the second group - no way re they in that first group...

 

Manolas and Sokratis are better than any player you named in that second group. On top of that you say there are probably 4 or 5 you forgot...Ludicrous. They are solidly in the cream of the crop. It`s time to accept this and move on.

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎01 at 11:37 PM, val said:

^^

It could be that wenger rated mustafi higher

If roma's demands were what was been reported then they are ridicules to say the least, especially for manolas. If that's the case, then wenger did the right thing.

 

Wenger is known not to overspend on players. If he felt that Manolas price was more than he was willing to spend and Mustafi, albeit a lesser player but with upside, came at a better price. then he would go for the latter.

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎01 at 11:01 PM, georgelaz said:

there aren't that many defenders better than manolas and sokratis, that's for sure.

but obvious one's are = chiellini, ramos, hummels, tiago silva, boatang

there's a reason why these guys are known world wide and our boys not as many.

you can only count on one hand that has a duo equivalent or better than our duo, namely = italy and Germany

I am not saying that our boys are better than the players mentioned above, albeit not far behind and arguably in the same class.

What I will say is, referring to your point about these players` notoriety world wide is that they all grew up in massive footballing nations with top class academies which gave them the opportunity to stand out and the exposure to be scouted by top clubs.

Our poor guys started at Apollon Petalidiou and Pannaxiakos before going to AEK in a Greek Super League with already little credibility in developing talent.

I do not want to make this a topic about nationality, but there is a vivid contrast in the exposure our top talents get compared to that of players from Germany, Spain, Brazil, Italy, etc.

Edited by Argy
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26 minutes ago, Argy said:

It is well understood that Manolas and Sokratis are first tier, world class.

Ask anyone in Italy and Manolas is in the same conversation as the 3 Juventus CBs.

General consensus in Bundesliga is that Sokratis right behind Hummels and Boateng, very hard to argue otherwise. He is on their level there is no doubt and the reason Bayern got Hummels over Sokratis is because Hummels is a German with pedigree and the signing is perceived as more prestigious than signing the Greek.

 

When you say "ask anyone" just this alone deters readers. State you opinion and not what you have read in a paper or website.

Your last comment about bayern and hummels gave me a migraine. Like bayern care about what other perceive. They want to win so they go and get the best players. Hummels is the best defender in that league and it's not even close. Not only that unlike sokratis, hummels is also a footballer. What does this mean? Well he has a good first touch and can distribute the ball.

 

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Fair enough about the ask anyone, but point remains. That is my opinion and it is evidently a widely shared one.

I am not saying that Hummels went to Bayern over Sokratis solely because he is German or because it is a more prestigious transfer, but even if they were carbon copies of each other, Hummels is the sexier transfer for Bayern in Germany.

Edited by Argy
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^^And they can distribute the ball. When the opposition sees defenders that can neither control the ball nor pass out of defense, they press them knowing they will win the ball back. But even if you would not bring this into the equation, hummels defends better. Sokratis and manolas struggle with their concentration and sometimes their positioning.

 

 

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Sokratis was BVB`s best defender last season. Hummels being better overall can be thoroughly argued, but this is no clear cut case.

BVB is an elite club, right outside the group of the Bayerns, Reals and Barcelonas, etc. which have a squad of 11 + world class players. An elite club, on their end, has a few world class players surrounded by elites. Dortmund has three world class, one in each third of the field: Aubameyang, Reus and Sokratis. Then they have about 6 or 7 elite players complementing them.

Edited by Argy
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^defending i thought he was solid but on the ball he was poor. 3 occassions were very dangerous where he lost the ball or gave a bad pass and sporting almost scored 2 times from that ball loss. to bad thats not uncommen with sokratis , looks like a concentration problem and tuchel and he should work on that even more.

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