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Amazing amazing! Panthers win, Asteras lose!


ukchris

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Well, what an afternoon. Panionios went into this game knowing that, to stand any chance of being in the UEFA Cup 5th spot, we had to win at OFI and Asteras had to not win at home to Levadiakos.

So, we managed to win 2-1 at OFI, thanks to an 80th minute goal. Amazing. Asteras were losing for most of the game with Levadiakos, and then equalised in the 89th minute. :( But then Levadiakos scored in the 90th, to make it 2-1!!! :) :) :) :)

So, that leaves us two points behind Asteras, with one game to play. Theirs is away at AEK. Ours is at home to Atromitos. So if we win and they lose, we should get the UEFA Cup spot!!!!

If points are level (ie we win and Asteras draw) then I'm assuming that places are still decided in Greece by the aggregate result for the two matches between the level teams? Is that right? Because we beat Asteras 4-1 at Nea Smyrni and lost just 1-0 in Tripoli, means we'll finish above them, right?

Larissa could also finish on the same points as us, if we both win next week, but we have a better head to head record with them this season too, so that should be OK.

The only thing I don't know, is if Panionios, Larissa and Asteras all finish on the same points. Is it like a mini league of our results against each other then?

What I do know is that this morning, a UEFA Cup spot looked very unlikely. But now it looks like it we win next week (please!) then we stand a very good chance!

(I'm so excited that I'm not even upset that I spent 6 Euros on the Supersport website to watch the OFI v Panionios game, but didn't see a second of it because of an "unknown error" on Supersport's site. We still won, and that's all that really mattered.)

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HOW AMAZING IS THIS YEARS LEAGUE? The title-race, UEFA CUP spot, and relegation fight, have all been top-notch!!!

Personally I'd like to see Larisa the UEFA Cup spot if possible, sorry Chris :P

But Asteras would be my last choice of the 3. I just think that if Larissa hold on to Metin and Zurawski they'll be best equipped to do well while Asteras will probably go out in the first round! (Sorry Kolokotronis but I just don't believe that they'll hold on to all their players, and even if they do, if they can't beat Leviadakos at home to secure a UEFA Cup spot then what happens when they play someone like Everton or Udinese?

So who will get that final spot?

Asteras are away to AEK so I doubt they'll get any more points.

Panionios are home to Atromitos which will be tough because they need to win to be assured of escaping relegation.

Larisa are at home to a PAOK side that travel horrendously.

So it's still wide open! I think Panionios will make it though. :)

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Well, glad to hear you think we'll make it Dude (even if you don't want us to!)

And the Panthers wouldn't be afraid of Udinese, afterall, we beat them in the UEFA Cup qualifying round in 2004! If we can hold on to Djebbour and Choutos, I'm confident we can make the group stage again. But we need to get there first...!

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How many of those teams go to uefa? If aris win in the cup final doesnt aris go because there victory in the finals and one other team (Larissa, Asteras and Panionios) can also go?

So say the title finishes like this

OSFP

AEK

PAO

ARIS

PAN

AST

doesnt asteras go as well if aris win the cup?

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How many of those teams go to uefa? If aris win in the cup final doesnt aris go because there victory in the finals and one other team (Larissa, Asteras and Panionios) can also go?

So say the title finishes like this

OSFP

AEK

PAO

ARIS

PAN

AST

doesnt asteras go as well if aris win the cup?

No because we've been crap for a few years now only 2 teams go into champs lge qualifying while 3 teams go uefa (and one of those is a cup winner). So it will be PAO, Aris and Panionios.

Personally i disagree with DUDE i think Djibbour and Choutos are better than Zurawski and Tumer and when Galitsios leaves too and the AEL defence is even more aged, they'll find it hard next year. So GO PANTHERS!! :tup:

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The tie breaker is head to head, and both Larisa and Panionios prevail over Asteras in this scenario. The only way Asteras gains the last playoff spot is:

1) If they beat AEK

2) If they tie AEK and BOTH Panionios and Larisa fail to win.

3) If they lose to AEK and neither Panionios nor Larisa win.

Asteras shot themselves in their own foot. It was theirs for the taking and they let it slip out of their hands.

Just curious how people believe Larisa an Panionios are "better equipped" to play in Europe because they'll retain their players, when Larisa already has sold Galitsios (and in all likelihood will sell Cleyton also) and Panionios has already transferred Spyropoulos (and probably will sell at t one more player in the summer).

Who has Asteras sold? And which team has a track record of BUYING players as need arises?

btw, if Asteras don't make it, I wish Panionios and Larisa all the best. I have a soft spot in my heart for both teams. Larisa for their great late 80's run (with mostly Larisaious) and Panionios because my cousin lives a stones throw from the stadium and I go to see them every chance I get when I'm in Greece.

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The tie breaker is head to head, and both Larisa and Panionios prevail over Asteras in this scenario. The only way Asteras gains the last playoff spot is:

1) If they beat AEK

2) If they tie AEK and BOTH Panionios and Larisa fail to win.

3) If they lose to AEK and neither Panionios nor Larisa win.

Asteras shot themselves in their own foot. It was theirs for the taking and they let it slip out of their hands.

Just curious how people believe Larisa an Panionios are "better equipped" to play in Europe because they'll retain their players, when Larisa already has sold Galitsios (and in all likelihood will sell Cleyton also) and Panionios has already transferred Spyropoulos (and probably will sell at t one more player in the summer).

Who has Asteras sold? And which team has a track record of BUYING players as need arises?

btw, if Asteras don't make it, I wish Panionios and Larisa all the best. I have a soft spot in my heart for both teams. Larisa for their great late 80's run (with mostly Larisaious) and Panionios because my cousin lives a stones throw from the stadium and I go to see them every chance I get when I'm in Greece.

But Cardozo will probably leave Asteras too. I compare Asteras' run this year to that of Sunderland a few years ago. The got promoted finished 5th then got relegated the very next year without selling-off any of their players. Larissa and Panionios had terrible starts and caught up while Asteras were amazing then started to slip. I'd be interested to see what the league table would look like in the 2nd half of the season alone, I'm sure Asteras would be below her 2 rivals.
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Where do you get Cardozo will leave? Because we know for certain Spyropoulos already HAS left, Galitsios WILL leave, and Cleyton isn't far behind.

But even if Cardozo DOES leave, Bakos is the ONLY owner who has shown the proclivity to make the necessary moves to strengthen his side.

I really chuckle when people pass judgment and draw conclusions on Asteras without really having seen much of them or knowing whats going on in the club.

Milano, Asteras BEST player, has played all of ONE match a starter. Asteras SECOND best player, Zairi, has been in and out of the lineup from midseason on. Asteras also added Fytanidis, Kaburov, Damonte, and Pavoni in the winter transfer period and will have them for an entire year next year.

If anything, Asteras has suffered from a midseason coaching change and inexperience at the SL level. Nonetheless, Asteras is every bit as good as Larisa or Panionios, osa strava kai an kathete auto se merikous gia pollous kai diaforous logous.

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Where do you get Cardozo will leave? Because we know for certain Spyropoulos already HAS left, Galitsios WILL leave, and Cleyton isn't far behind.

But even if Cardozo DOES leave, Bakos is the ONLY owner who has shown the proclivity to make the necessary moves to strengthen his side.

I really chuckle when people pass judgment and draw conclusions on Asteras without really having seen much of them or knowing whats going on in the club.

Milano, Asteras BEST player, has played all of ONE match a starter. Asteras SECOND best player, Zairi, has been in and out of the lineup from midseason on. Asteras also added Fytanidis, Kaburov, Damonte, and Pavoni in the winter transfer period and will have them for an entire year next year.

If anything, Asteras has suffered from a midseason coaching change and inexperience at the SL level. Nonetheless, Asteras is every bit as good as Larisa or Panionios, osa strava kai an kathete auto se merikous gia pollous kai diaforous logous.

You say "it's inexperience" as if that doesn't mean anything. Asteras had to beat Leviadakos to have a realistic chance of qualifying and they failed, whatever the reason, they failed. What happens when they have to beat a team like Feyenoord or Everton? I think that Larissa and Panionios, for whatever reason, will have a better chance. Sorry if that doesnt sit well with you but it's my opinion.
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Needed to beat Levadeiakos to have a "realistic" CHANCE? of qualifying?

They WOULD HAVE qualified if they won, irrespective of what Larisa or Panionios did.

By inexperience, I meant in the super league. How to handle a thirty game season, what the strengths and weaknesses of certain teams are, how to play in certain away grounds, etc.......

All these things mean squat in Europe. And your rationale that "for whatever reason" I think Panionios and Larisa will do better just doesn't cut it. All three are pretty evenly matched, and I don't think any of the three has an advantage over another in Europe. Hell, Panionios lost to Bordeaux's B side, AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Needed to beat Levadeiakos to have a "realistic" CHANCE? of qualifying?

They WOULD HAVE qualified if they won, irrespective of what Larisa or Panionios did.

By inexperience, I meant in the super league. How to handle a thirty game season, what the strengths and weaknesses of certain teams are, how to play in certain away grounds, etc.......

All these things mean squat in Europe. And your rationale that "for whatever reason" I think Panionios and Larisa will do better just doesn't cut it.  All three are pretty evenly matched, and I don't think any of the three has an advantage over another in Europe. Hell, Panionios lost to Bordeaux's B side, AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what he's saying numbnuts :P Now that they haven't won they don't have a realistic chance of qualifying.

As for Europe: AEL lost to Zenit and Nurenburg in games they should have won, but overall they have a fantastic record at home. In fact they're also undefeated at home in the league. Asteras just don't have that sort of intimidating atmosphere at home.

And there's no need to get so hot under the collar, if Asteras make it we'll all be supporting them, but having a different opinion as to who will perform better is natural. That's the beauty of football file mou, there are no absolutes

Since January when Asteras "strengthened" so much according to you, with all those wonderful signings this has been the points tally:

Panionios = 24

AEL = 21

Asteras = 19

Maybe the "flash in the pan" is coming to an end. euro2004 gave the example of Sunderland, I'll use the example of Reading, but there are many more teams that get promoted, do well in their first season, then get relegated or struggle the following season. Also, when Asteras where building up points at the beginning of the season the other 2 (AEL & Panionios) had UEFA Cup commitments which takes its toll on the team, Asteras were concentrating solely on the league.

So sorry buddy, but like euro2004 and NikosVazelas, I also think that Asteras aren't as good as Panionios or AEL.

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Needed to beat Levadeiakos to have a "realistic" CHANCE? of qualifying?

They WOULD HAVE qualified if they won, irrespective of what Larisa or Panionios did.

By inexperience, I meant in the super league. How to handle a thirty game season, what the strengths and weaknesses of certain teams are, how to play in certain away grounds, etc.......

All these things mean squat in Europe. And your rationale that "for whatever reason" I think Panionios and Larisa will do better just doesn't cut it.

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i've watched asteras play and i'm convinced that only playing 1 center forward hurts zairi.

a player who is a natural for touchline play (pace, dribbling and crossing) such as zairi, would be even much more dangerous if astera played 2 strikers. playing a sole striker makes marking him easier, in effect taking away the aerial game.

with touchline players, the fullbacks must be honest and can't help out the centerbacks, thus allowing much more room for strikers or central midfielders making forward runs. i'd bet that zairi would be an assist leader if asteras played with 2 central strikers, zairi could pick from either post or aim for the top of the 6 yard box to 12 yards out to distribute poisonous crosses.

it seems as though his talents are going to waste due to ultra-defensive tactics.

Asteras has at times in the second half of the season played with two strikers.

Zairi is more hurt by the fact Asteras doesn't really have an effective "in the hole" player or pure attacking cmf. THAT would really open up the flanks for him. Asteras was counting on Milano being that player, but injury shleved him for most of the season.

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The tie breaker is head to head, and both Larisa and Panionios prevail over Asteras in this scenario. The only way Asteras gains the last playoff spot is:

1) If they beat AEK

2) If they tie AEK and BOTH Panionios and Larisa fail to win.

3) If they lose to AEK and neither Panionios nor Larisa win.

Just curious how people believe Larisa an Panionios are "better equipped" to play in Europe because they'll retain their players, when Larisa already has sold Galitsios (and in all likelihood will sell Cleyton also) and Panionios has already transferred Spyropoulos (and probably will sell at t one more player in the summer).

Who has Asteras sold? And which team has a track record of BUYING players as need arises?

btw, if Asteras don't make it, I wish Panionios and Larisa all the best. I have a soft spot in my heart for both teams. Larisa for their great late 80's run (with mostly Larisaious) and Panionios because my cousin lives a stones throw from the stadium and I go to see them every chance I get when I'm in Greece.

Asteras shot themselves in their own foot. It was theirs for the taking and they let it slip out of their hands.

i agree with this. cambos was the man you'd want needing asteras to play for a result. last week's last minute collapse was ridiculous. asteras could have sewn up a play-off spot just trying to play for a result in various matches since cambos' sacking.

too bad asteras may miss out on european football due to the capritsio of it's management. if cambos wanted to leave or did/said something that would make his coaching tenure at asteras untenable, then fire him AFTER the season, or, until astera was guaranteed a play-off spot.

aek66,

I've heard there's more than meets the eye to the Campos situation through my sources in Tripoli, but I won't give such much more credence until I can further verify.

You see though, early on I told you Asteras would have been a top 5 contender, and but for tragically shooting themselves in the foot at home last Sunday, my prediction would have held true. Oute magos na imoun. :LOL:

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Well, glad to hear you think we'll make it Dude (even if you don't want us to!)

And the Panthers wouldn't be afraid of Udinese, afterall, we beat them in the UEFA Cup qualifying round in 2004! If we can hold on to Djebbour and Choutos, I'm confident we can make the group stage again. But we need to get there first...!

you guys will need alot more than just the djebbour/choutos combination for next year...otherwise, chances are a poor european run and poor greek league form is on the horizon.

many intangibles are needed (lienen needs to stay, no major sellings, help at centerback, get an established goalkeeper and an experienced central midfielder that can hold the ball to compliment makos are urgent needs, while adding quality depth for the heavier schedule would also be paramount.

all this...and it's not a given that panionios will nose out asteras. one of panionios' main team weaknessess is it's young age. the side is up and down, capable of pleasant surprises and dreadful preformances...i've given examples in previous posts.

on paper, panionios should defeat atromitos at home and panionios makes the play-offs. this year's panionios tells us that nothing is for sure.

Panionios needs to strengthen their defense. The fact that they will probably secure a playoff spot with as tragic a defense as they have is a testament to how much talent they possess in their midfield and attack. In fact, I think they have more talent in their front 6 than Larisa. And they have some VERY good players coming off the bench.
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Funny how Greeks are so prone to discrediting the accomplishments of others. How many other "flash in the pans" have beaten PAO, OSFP, AEK, AND PAOK in the same round? Name me one in the entire history of Greek football. JUST ONE.

No mate, the real question is why are some Greeks so prone to becoming confrontational when someone has an opposing view. We don't think Asteras is as good as you think, it's a difference of opinion, no one has insulted you grow up and get over it!

If you want to evaluate teams, you first have to be able to evaluate players. And I've been doing that a LOOONG time.

Congratulations! But I am in fact a qualified youth football coach and I work for Arsenal F.C. I've been involved in coaching some of their youth players for 2 years. I've also worked with Leyton Orient's first team and have been offered a permanent job as an assistant first team coach by Brighton F.C., AEK Larnaca, and Dundee Utd, and I'm still 25 so I hope to have a bright future in coaching. It is my job. That doesn't mean that my opinions are more valuable than yours, after all there are managers like Bryan Robson who have played at the highest level and been involved with football legends and yet is a horrible tactician. Nonetheless I hope it shows that I am not ignorant so please do not attempt to undermine me with that very silly comment.

Asteras roster quality is definitely top 5-7 in Greece. Teams with that type of quality don't pull Sunderland's, especially with the back end of the SL traditionally so weak.

Possibly, but it is not a roster which is capable of competing at UEFA Cup level. Even if it was, a man with your "expertise" should know that individuals do not make a team. Real Madrid have better individuals than Liverpool, who is a better team?

Nonetheless, if you want to guage my football acumen, you can go to another site where after 4-5 weeks of the season, I basically predicted the top 7 teams in the SL. OSFP, AEK, PAO in the top three, Aris fourth, and Asteras, Panionios, and Larisa in the remaining 5-7 spots. I also predicted Atromitos would drop after some good early season form.

Bravo. Did you also predict these scorelines? =

Asteras 0-1 AEL (at home against AEL)

Panionios 4-1 Asteras (yes Asteras are clearly better)

Asteras 1-2 Levadiakos (this is probably the only pressured, cup-tie, sort of game that Asteras have had this season and this was the result, what if this was a game against Udinese that they had to win?)

Also Asteras have scored 28 goals this year, Panionios 37 and AEL 31. So they've based their success on a good defence, nothing wrong with that, but they've averaged less than 1 goal a game in the superleague, I wonder how that will be reflected in the UEFA Cup?

Not to mention the fact that DUDE makes a very good point about AEL and Panionios having UEFA Cup committments which means their squads were more strained this year.

All this does not mean I am right and Asteras are not as strong as AEL and Panionios, but what it does show is that we (DUDE and I) have both collated evidence which can reasonably stress our argument and so we are untitled to our opinions without you being so rude.

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aek66,

Man U also had a withdrawn striker that would come back to the ball when they had Keano and Scholes in the middle, didn't they? They always had someone "in the hole" to draw out the CB.

There are definite differences between a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3, but not so much between a 4-3-3 and the 4-5-1 that Asteras usuallly plays. In fact, the 4-5-1 is basically a 4-3-3 with the wings withdraw a few meters.

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aek66,

Man U also had a withdrawn striker that would come back to the ball when they had Keano and Scholes in the middle, didn't they? They always had someone "in the hole" to draw out the CB.

It depends at what period you look. When Cantona was playing, he was in the hole. Later when they had Yorke and Cole they would both push forward and make diagonal runs across each other, unless Sheringham was starting, in which case he'd be in the hole. Rooney played in the hole initially, but now they have no out and out striker. They tend to play a 2 man holding midfield (Carrick and Hargreaves or Anderson, or even Scholes quite deep) who support a 4 man, Brazil-like interchange with Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and either Giggs or Nani. So they frequently go from 4-4-2 to a 1970s Brazil like 4-2-4.

There are definite differences between a 4-4-2 and a 4-3-3, but not so much between a 4-3-3 and the 4-5-1 that Asteras usuallly plays. In fact, the 4-5-1 is basically a 4-3-3 with the wings withdraw a few meters.

Very true, and not just Asteras but most teams that use that system: Chelsea, Bolton, PSV, etc.

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Funny how Greeks are so prone to discrediting the accomplishments of others. How many other "flash in the pans" have beaten PAO, OSFP, AEK, AND PAOK in the same round? Name me one in the entire history of Greek football. JUST ONE.

No mate, the real question is why are some Greeks so prone to becoming confrontational when someone has an opposing view. We don't think Asteras is as good as you think, it's a difference of opinion, no one has insulted you grow up and get over it!

Congratulations! But I am in fact a qualified youth football coach and I work for Arsenal F.C. I've been involved in coaching some of their youth players for 2 years. I've also worked with Leyton Orient's first team and have been offered a permanent job as an assistant first team coach by Brighton F.C., AEK Larnaca, and Dundee Utd, and I'm still 25 so I hope to have a bright future in coaching. It is my job. That doesn't mean that my opinions are more valuable than yours, after all there are managers like Bryan Robson who have played at the highest level and been involved with football legends and yet is a horrible tactician. Nonetheless I hope it shows that I am not ignorant so please do not attempt to undermine me with that very silly comment.

Possibly, but it is not a roster which is capable of competing at UEFA Cup level. Even if it was, a man with your "expertise" should know that individuals do not make a team. Real Madrid have better individuals than Liverpool, who is a better team?

Bravo. Did you also predict these scorelines? =

Asteras 0-1 AEL (at home against AEL)

Panionios 4-1 Asteras (yes Asteras are clearly better)

Asteras 1-2 Levadiakos (this is probably the only pressured, cup-tie, sort of game that Asteras have had this season and this was the result, what if this was a game against Udinese that they had to win?)

Also Asteras have scored 28 goals this year, Panionios 37 and AEL 31. So they've based their success on a good defence, nothing wrong with that, but they've averaged less than 1 goal a game in the superleague, I wonder how that will be reflected in the UEFA Cup?

Not to mention the fact that DUDE makes a very good point about AEL and Panionios having UEFA Cup committments which means their squads were more strained this year.

All this does not mean I am right and Asteras are not as strong as AEL and Panionios, but what it does show is that we (DUDE and I) have both collated evidence which can reasonably stress our argument and so we are untitled to our opinions without you being so rude.

I'm glad that you're a qualified youth coach with a promising future, but I've been there done that. More than 20 years ago. Nonetheless, I wish you the best of luck. Hard profession with minimal returns (save for a select few).

Additionally, if Astears roster isn't capable of competing at the UEFA Cup level, neither is Panionio's or AEL's. Thats who the comparison is between. Not sure how you can make that assesment though, when Asteras hasn't played in UEFA yet. Nonetheless, we HAVE seen Panionios in UEFA. And ultimately, Larisa was ousted fairly early also.

Looking at Astera's roster though, a midfield of Milano, Zairi, Cardoso, and Damonte or Pavoni is certainly UEFA class. All of them. I also think Filomeno up front is more than capable of playing at that level, although I wouldn't put him in Djebour, Choutos, or Murawski's class. Kaburov I haven't seen enough to make an assesment.

A cb crew of Lazaridis, Psomas, Machado, and even Ofrydopoulos is in no way worse than anything Larisa or Panionios has to offer. In fact, MUCH better than anything Panionios has. Asteras does need some work at FB, although Fytanidis is probably on par with Maniatis. Massar I do NOT like, but Panionios other fb (his name escapes me now) is so so as well. I like Larisa's duo of Galitsios and Venetdis (who I think is very underrated).

At keeper, I would say Amparis is definitely on par with Kotsolis (at a minimum) and certainly better than anything Panionios has to offer.

So how the conclusion can be made that AEL and Panionios have Euro rosters but Asteras doesn't is beyond me.

As for the results you posted, again, this has to be coming from someone who hasn't watched much of Asteras. The first AEL game was Asteras first ever in the SL, and one which by all accounts they should have won.

Panionios did in fact beat Asteras, but Asteras was also severely shorthanded for this match. And its one match that was decided on a couple of quick counters when Asteras tried to push up for the equalizer. Funny how you don't mention that Asteras beat Panionios in the first round. If you're looking at one match, I can also point to the trouncing Panionios received at home at the hands of mighty .................. OFI. Looking at one match is very shortsighted. Evaluations are made on the entire body of work (season), not one match.

I will grant you that Panionios and Larisa had UEFA Cup commitments. That being said, Asteras was also new to the SL, underwent severe roster changes midseason, and ultimately a coaching change (which neither Panionios or AEL did).

In any event. good luck in your career, and if Asteras doesn't make it, I wish Panionios and Larisa the best of luck from the bottom of my heart. I admire, respect, and like both clubs.

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Congratulations! But I am in fact a qualified youth football coach and I work for Arsenal F.C. I've been involved in coaching some of their youth players for 2 years. I've also worked with Leyton Orient's first team and have been offered a permanent job as an assistant first team coach by Brighton F.C., AEK Larnaca, and Dundee Utd, and I'm still 25 so I hope to have a bright future in coaching.

You worked with Arsenal youth? That's great. Do you know Jimmy McMahon, Shane Conway, and Ozkan Mehmet?

Bravo. Did you also predict these scorelines? =

Asteras 0-1 AEL (at home against AEL)

Panionios 4-1 Asteras (yes Asteras are clearly better)

Asteras 1-2 Levadiakos (this is probably the only pressured, cup-tie, sort of game that Asteras have had this season and this was the result, what if this was a game against Udinese that they had to win?)

Also Asteras have scored 28 goals this year, Panionios 37 and AEL 31. So they've based their success on a good defence, nothing wrong with that, but they've averaged less than 1 goal a game in the superleague, I wonder how that will be reflected in the UEFA Cup?

Pes ta re, pes ta! :P Look, everyone has their opinion so until we see Asteras in the UEFA Cup we can only speculate...

Now I'll leave you with a precious little video:

:LOL: :LOL:

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http://www.supersport.gr/soccer/anational/....asp?aid=148255

According to Supersport, if Djibbour leaves in the summer he'll be replaced by Konstantinou!

Personally I think that when Konstantinou is fully fit he's still one of the best strikers in Greece. He's a different sort of forward than Djibbour, but his aerial ability, intelligence, and ability to hold up the ball and bring midfielders in to play can be a great asset for Panionios. The big man, small man strike force that has served so many teams so well in the past could also work wonders if he clicks with Choutos.

It would be a great signing and a nice combination for the UEFA Cup! :P :gr:

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