Olympiakos Appeal

[Tsoglani]

Yeah, I am glad you brought up "big teams". I would be just as critical if PAO filed such a ridiculous appeal.

OTH, there are times when an appeal (or more noise) would be useful, When a team gains an unfair advantage through illegal means. Like the case with the Larissa doped player in the cup final last year.

But I was happy we did not make a big fuss about it.

Yea i never want to point some specific team . But this case is actuall this moment.

If PAO had done a big fuss about the issue with the player of Larisa that seemd to be doped and PAO had brought up in the past exact the same statement as Mr. sokratis Kokalis did i would condemmnt this aswell.

[Tsoglani]

Ok here i found some more about those past days:

[Crazy]

wait,where am i??Is this the Olympiakos forum or the Panathinaikos forum??Olympiakos Appeal as a title???You guys deep inside,you love us....you can not have enough from us.......you sleep,eat and live thinking about us.....So nice,so romantic.......i would date you but you are all guys,Athinaios bring some girls in here damn it.... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Serious now,if EPO gave the guy permision to play,they should drop the appeal and be done with it,no fine and no points.

[Tsoglani]

wait,where am i??Is this the Olympiakos forum or the Panathinaikos forum??Olympiakos Appeal as a title???You guys deep inside,you love us....you can not have enough from us.......you sleep,eat and live thinking about us.....So nice,so romantic.......i would date you but you are all guys,Athinaios bring some girls in here damn it.... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Serious now,if EPO gave the guy permision to play,they should drop the appeal and be done with it,no fine and no points.

:nw:

[drakos13]

its the referee and EPO's job to check all players for eligibility before each match....not Kalamarias fault... Gavros does not deserve a rematch over an ineligible player.

[Tsoglani]

Hery at least something very interesting

http://www.balla.gr/default.asp?pid=95&la=...323&artid=49041

[MadBoy13]

giati omos den pisteuo tin balla.gr katholou??? oti lene olo vlakeies einai... makari edo omos na einai sostoi!!! :D

[Guest TheLegend]

osfp should try to win matches on the field rather than in some boardroom, crying over some technicallity which from what i've beed reading doesnt stand a chance, unless some old farts pockets dig deep

This is no different than diving to win a game... or refs not calling penalties for the other team..... Still a not so popular way to get points

(Except the diving part. The italians have glorified diving and its all around now)

[levendi2000]

This is no different than diving to win a game... or refs not calling penalties for the other team..... Still a not so popular way to get points

(Except the diving part. The italians have glorified diving and its all around now)

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[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

I am listening to SupertSportfm right now and they are saying that the rumor is that Oly is going to win the appeal and get the 3 points. The time is 7:45 pm US Eastern time. We will see if that is true!!!!!!!

[Guest TheLegend]

they said kalamaria loses up to 8

oly gets none

rumors

[MadBoy13]

ill be so pissed if osfp get the 3 points... i hope pao and aek gonna do something for it

[Tsoglani]

Even if OSFP should win this now Apollon will then go in revision.

The issue will then be decided by EPO. After that if OSFP again gets the win , apollon will go to FIFA and even if same happens there he will go to CAS. After that we can see who gets the 3 Points and if they will be so precious to Olympiakos or even for Kalamaria.

[GreenTitus]

Guys, I don't have the time to look into this but, from a legal point of view, that balla.gr article is deeply problematic. If Kalamaria get the 3 points we are left with a paradox: they will be punished for an irregularity in a certain game, lose 8 points for this reason and yet win 3 points from that specific game despite their error! In addition, if they get these points the overall penalty will not be -8 but -5 points. Now, if they don't get the 3 points and still lose 8 more 1) they will be punished with -11 points overall (which might be ok if these are two separate penalties) BUT 2) if OSFP don't get the 3 points either, we are left with the paradox that this specific match will not give any points! Obviously, every game should award 2 (draw) or 3 (win) points. Anything else doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, if OSFP win the appeal Kalamaria will go all the way and it is very possible that the playoffs cannot be scheduled, since the final table will not be, well, final! UNLESS, of course, OSFP finish top of the table and win the league - in this case it won't matter. So, a good conspiracy theorist would tell us that that committee's decision will reveal the champion! In any case, and since I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories, all I can say is that OSFP definitely spent Monday making sure that they will win the appeal. Otherwise why would they act against the wishes of most of their fans and tolerate the comments from the opposition? Too risky, I think... Anything else would be a pleasant surprise regarding the way these committees work in Greek football.

[Tsoglani]

Guys, I don't have the time to look into this but, from a legal point of view, that balla.gr article is deeply problematic. If Kalamaria get the 3 points we are left with a paradox: they will be punished for an irregularity in a certain game, lose 8 points for this reason and yet win 3 points from that specific game despite their error! In addition, if they get these points the overall penalty will not be -8 but -5 points. Now, if they don't get the 3 points and still lose 8 more 1) they will be punished with -11 points overall (which might be ok if these are two separate penalties) BUT 2) if OSFP don't get the 3 points either, we are left with the paradox that this specific match will not give any points! Obviously, every game should award 2 (draw) or 3 (win) points. Anything else doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, if OSFP win the appeal Kalamaria will go all the way and it is very possible that the playoffs cannot be scheduled, since the final table will not be, well, final! UNLESS, of course, OSFP finish top of the table and win the league - in this case it won't matter. So, a good conspiracy theorist would tell us that that committee's decision will reveal the champion! In any case, and since I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories, all I can say is that OSFP definitely spent Monday making sure that they will win the appeal. Otherwise why would they act against the wishes of most of their fans and tolerate the comments from the opposition? Too risky, I think... Anything else would be a pleasant surprise regarding the way these committees work in Greek football.

If Kalamaria get the 3 points they dont get punished at all.

If Kalamaria gets punished with -8 points Olympiakos the game points dont count at all.

If Olympiakos wins the appeal Kalamaria gets a punishment of the 3 lost points to olympiakos plus -1 point for using ilegal a player.

Its as simple as that.

[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

It's sad to say but if Oly wins this game in the court room it is clear to me that they want him to be champion this year. So the rest of the teams should just quit now and give them the title that they "diserve".........There is no point to continue playing........A8ANATH ELLADA!!!!!

[Crazy]

I will wait to see the decision first because normally when the come to any decision they start with,By article so and so of EPO rules and they go on with announcing the decision.If OSFP should not get points,then dont give him points,if kalamaria did nothing wrong dont punish them.My personal opinion is that nothing should change,kalamaria the points and finito the story but i am getting really anxious to see the exact decision report.The words on it.......

[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

AEK S'AGAPO, AEK S'AGAPO DOSTE TO PROTA8LIMA STON OLYMPIAKO!!!! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[pao123]

it is pathetic that oly would even consider this acction for the points...really stooping down to a new low level...stop being sore losers, accept the result and move on...if oly are awarded the points then AEKPROTATHLIMA is right, there really is no point to continue playing...

[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

Here is the latest info from SuperSport:

[cyberfish]

Thanks AEKprotathlima, this is a very useful post.

Here is the relevant Article 5, paragraph 4:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederati...fen%5f33410.pdf

on page 9

It says:

4. Under all circumstances, due consideration must be given to the

sporting integrity of the competition. In particular, a player may not

play official matches for more than two clubs competing in the same

national championship or cup during the same season, subject to

stricter individual competition regulations of member associations.

My earlier link to the "tranfer rules" is apparently the old one (sorry, I had no way of knowing since fifa does not date-stamp these pdf files.) Here is the context for this new link http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/a...rtsplayers.html )

This one is the new version and more relevant to the case. Although I can't really find what article Olympiakos is using on his grievance, I assume that if the judge mentioned article 5, then that's the one Olympiakos is using.

[Guest TheLegend]

Thanks AEKprotathlima,

Here is the relevant Article 5, paragraph 4:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederati...fen%5f33410.pdf

on page 9

It says:

4. Under all circumstances, due consideration must be given to the

sporting integrity of the competition. In particular, a player may not

play official matches for more than two clubs competing in the same

national championship or cup during the same season, subject to

stricter individual competition regulations of member associations.

Seems like that rule is irrelevant with this topic because thats for local, not international.

[Crazy]

[AEKPROTATHLIMA]

Ps.Thank you AEKPROTATHLIMA for the update. :nw:

You welcome. That's why i am here!!! :D :D :D

[cyberfish]

Wow, in the time it takes me to write and edit one post two more appear. I thought I was fast on the keyboard :1eye:

Here is my take after all this research:

To me this looks like dead in the water for Olympiakos. Not only there is no problem with the player playing (he did not transfer within the same association - Article 5, paragraph 4), but even if there was an irregularity, it is the responsibility of the association (EPO) to check all facts (including those not submitted with the application) before issuing the registration (article 8).

The Association (EPO) would not (or should have not) issue a registration if there were irregularities in the application and the supporting documents. The player's passport was issued to EPO along with the ITC (International Transfer Certificate, commonly referred as "mple karta" by Greek reporters) according to Annexe 3, article 1.

Once EPO issued the registration, the player is eligible to play for his new team. Therefore, in any case there is no grounds for forfeigting a game where an eligible player participated. Now if EPO made a mistake does not make the player inelligible (the only case when a game could be forfeited.

To make it a bit clearer:

1 - Fifa rules of transfer, Article 5, paragraph 4 restrict players from playing for more than two clubs only if they are within the same association.

The case should closed here.

2 - Now if for some strange reason they find that the player should not be playing for Kalamaria:

(Note: Olympiakos must have filed a grievance against Kalamaria for using an *illegible* player. This is the only reason a game could be forfeited as far as I can find).

a - There is no "ineligible" player in this case. He had a valid registration issued by the association (EPO) after the obligatory checking of the facts, and after having inspected the papers in their hands (the Application, the contract, the ITC, and the Player Passport).

3 - EPO did the right thing to issue the registration, the player is eligible, this is all for selling newspapers and having nice conversations at Phantis :D