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plato-ny

EURO 2008: Turkey - Greece

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Gt den paizoume pio epithetika?

2 reasons i believe.1)Otto does not want to risk having another bad result against them,especially at there home,2)We play for 2 results,draw/win,while the need to win this game so Otto believes he can make more damage with counter attacks.

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:tup: EINAI TRELOS,EINAI TRELOS O GERMANOS :tup:

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[File we are in a weak group and our style of play would wither if this was the tournament. Do you think we're playing better football now then when we failed to qualify for the W/C because I don't. With the exception of Norway at home we haven't played well in any games!! The distance between our midfield and defence, or our midfield and strike force is too large and this diminished passing options. So too frequently we look for the long ball to Gekas and even if he wins the ball he has no one around him to give it to.

We've got players out, he is the only natural left back we have, Torosidis HAS to play centre-midfield so play Spyropoulo at left back gamoto!!!

yes we are in a weak group but our world cup group wasn t that much stronger. my point is the main part is qualifying and here we are in a very good position to do so still pretty early in the campaign by our standards. IF we make it to the euro no one will care HOW we made it. the examples you bring of bulgaria and serbia can also be used to illustrate this. in my opinion a team has to grow and reach its peak in the tournament, not in the qualifying. having said that i agree we are for most part not playing well BUT we do score goals and win the games for whatever reasons. this reminds me very much of germany in past qualifying campaigns, were they played like garbag but always managed to win. i dont want to stretch this analogy but in germany they say, playing bad and winning is what makes a team great :D

we also have a great variety of strikers who actually see playing time. in the wc qualifying it was vryzas and charisteas and no one else. so thats positive as well.

since the euro 04 we only managed to beat two decent teams: denmark and norway in greece. every other decent or better team we faced was a problem for us (i.e. belgium, england, france, turkey, s. korea) BUT our performance in norway was much better than the game in denmark. and this gives me some optimism. if otto starts fielding spyropoulos, uses toro correctly and finetunes the defense, i believe we could actually have a good team in the euro. and this is what couts at the end of the day.

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we are a mutch better team than the 2006 WC qualifying team

Dellas looked better vs BH than he has in years

Kyrgiakos is better

come to think about it - we are playing better at every position - except keeper

Toro over Fyssas

Giorkas was brutal at times in WC qualifiers

Basinas is in better form

Kats - about the same

Kara was a clown in many of those WC games - looks much more dangerous now

Zagorakis was playing on his last legs

Gekas adds a whole new dimension up front

Lybe is on form

Charisteas has dfound his scoring touch once again

Patsa and Antzas are better than any subs we had in the back in '06

Even

Otto seems to be making the right moves at the right times and has sowly intigrated some new blood

This team is about results that team was not

Ukraine at home was depressing it was a crucial game and we did not step up to the plate and at Denmark we were totally overmatched

I know we lost 1-4 but in the 2 big matches we just had we played very well and got postitive results and we have a better winning percentage than we did in '06 or even '04

Remember that team that played in the Confederation's Cup - that team was useless

A posisitve result at Constantinoupoli will calm all

:gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :tup:

Edited by loup

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Ukraine at home was depressing it was a crucial game and we did not step up to the plate and at Denmark we were totally overmatched

i agree for the most part. but, the ukraine match you refer to was probably the best game we played since the euro. it was a very unlucky defeat and we really outplayed the ukraine.

who said the wc squad had a better keeper? nikopolidis was at fault for probably half the goals we conceded in the wc campaign :P

i have calmed a bit about otto still we do have severe problems in midfield and playing toro out of position in such a blatant way doesnt really help us. he had many chances to introduce spyropoulos but didnt take them. the most obvious one in the friendly against spain where otto prefered vyntra over spyropoulos. the last one on saturday against bosnia. why not give spyropoulos his debut against 10 bosnians with greece leading 3:1??

i believe though that if we qualify the team WILL play better football at the euro.

the turkey match will be a real test and after the game we will have abetter picture of the team. its a game where we aim for a draw or better something very similar to the approach we would have at upcoming euro games.

Edited by aekrossoponti

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agreed re spiropoulos

if he played and excelled - we all of a sudden have depth in the mid with Stelios back and Toro in the mix

I realy think Leontiou was going to have a future as the LB until his knee blew up

We played well vs Ukraine - but that game showed what we were lacking and that was the ability to win the close games. The same could be said about our tie at the Ukraine. We had 3 great chances in that game and had zilch to take from it. We have 1 good chance late vs Moldova and we burried it. And when it comes down to it one reusult was 0-1 the other 2-1.

About the keepers - I think Nikopolidis has been at the same general so-so level since Portugal - but the 4 he ate vs Turkey is the difference between the two campaigns.

Still I love our talent up front - it blows away anything I've seen on the Ethniki and that includes the team that won in Portugal :gr:

Edited by loup

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yes we are in a weak group but our world cup group wasn t that much stronger.

Are you sure about that? Turkey were probably better back then than they are now but that is debatable. However, look at the other teams. Norway or Bosnia or a Denmark team that got to the last 8 in Euro 2004 and a Ukraine team that got to the last 8 of the W/C only to be KO'd by the eventual winners? That group was MUCH tougher.

IF we make it to the euro no one will care HOW we made it. the examples you bring of bulgaria and serbia can also be used to illustrate this.  having said that i agree we are for most part not playing well BUT we do score goals and win the games for whatever reasons. this reminds me very much of germany in past qualifying campaigns, were they played like garbag but always managed to win. i dont want to stretch this analogy but in germany they say, playing bad and winning is what makes a team great  :D 

No one cares how you make it, that's true. But the WAY you get your results, i.e. the quality of football you play does matter as can be seen with those examples. Germany came through a tough period BUT they were organised. We are not! We leave way too muc room in the middle and the only reason we are scoring more goals is because we play with a more open style. The problem is however you concede alot more too. (4 vs Turkey, 2 in Norway, 2 against Bosnia, etc). Your argument of "we get goals" doesn't stand up imo because we don't score quality goals. The goals we score are usually because of the opponents defensive errors or from set pieces. Against a big side we'd get hammered.

we also have a great variety of strikers who actually see playing time. in the wc qualifying it was vryzas and charisteas and no one else. so thats positive as well. 

That is a positive. However, they don't receive the necessary support and that's evident when we play decent teams.

since the euro 04 we only managed to beat two decent teams: denmark and norway in greece. every other decent or better team we faced was a problem for us (i.e. belgium, england, france, turkey, s. korea) BUT our performance in norway was much better than the game in denmark. and this gives me some optimism. if otto starts fielding spyropoulos, uses toro correctly and finetunes the defense, i believe we could actually have a good team in the euro. and this is what couts at the end of the day.

I agree. I actually think that we have the players that could actually challenge to reclaim our title IF used correctly. They are not being used correctly however, and you're saying "if Otto starts fielding Spyropoulos, uses Toro correctly & finetunes the defence..." the point is WHEN is he going to start using him? Is he just going to throw him in the deep end at the Euro's? I'll make a bet with you right now that Spyropoulos won't start playing in Greece's first team until after the Euros. So that poses the question, we both agree that if he starts using the boys properly we could do something, but what if he doesn't? What if he sticks with this team, do you think we'd do something then? Because if not you've been agreeing with my argument all along = we aren't good enough at the moment!

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First, let me say that the long ball strategy is mathematically proven to be effective; especially when playing a 4-3-3.  I don't see why this is a concern.

Direct passing (As we saw in Euro 2004) which is basically a long pass directed to a big target man so we can feed off his lay offs, flick on, and hold up play; is very different from blind long balls. You say that long balls are mathematically effective, how did you arrive to that conclusion file mou? Tell me 1 goal we've scored with a long ball in this campaign? Bear in mind Basinas' pass to Gekas for the goal against Bosnia was not a long ball but a directed chip forward. It's different.

Every game we play now is a preperation for Euro 2008, this coming game is a qualifier remember? We're in a good position now and we have the ability to take a slight risk in playing Spyropoulos in his first game against Turkey. If he copes well, and I'm sure he would, it would be a great learning curve for him and we'd know he could take the pressure in Austria/Switzerland. This would free up Torosidis and enable us to be more effective throughout the team.

And by whose account have we not played well during this campaign?

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I've heard reports that our team will exactly like against Bosnia except Seitaritis will step in for Patsa and Antzas will step in for Katsouranis. Otto is an idiot!!!

It's not so outrageous that Antzas will take his spot, because in a 4-3-3 system, the mide serves mostly to support the defence.

The dynamics would look like this:

Seitaridis-----Dellas-----Kyrgiakos----Torosidis

---------Basinas---Antzas---Karagounis---------

Amanatidis-----------Gekas----------Charisteas

During play:

___________________________________________________________

---------------Dellas-----Kyrgiakos----------------

Seitaridis--------------------------------Torosidis

----------------------Antzas------------------------

----------Basians--------------Karagounis---------

Amanatids-----------------------------Charisteas

----------------------Gekas------------------------

____________________________________________________________

I actually think this is a pretty good idea...plays almost like a 4-5-1

Rehhagel is VERY crafty!!

Edited by as5664

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im starting to get the feeling that in such an emotionally charged game anything can happen and "form" wont really matter. As long as we play to win and believe we can we will, EIMASTE ELLINHES

"OI ELLINES BOROUN H ELLADA BOREI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Date Bet type Event Bet Result Stake Odds Winnings

10/16/2007 9:17 PM Single

Turkey - Greece (Which player will score a goal in the match (reg. time/excl. own goals)?) Liberopoulos -

5.00 5.00 -

10/16/2007 9:17 PM Single

Turkey - Greece (How many goals will be scored?) Over 2,5 -

5.00 1.95 -

10/16/2007 9:15 PM Single

Turkey - Greece (Goal bet (regular time)) 1:4 -

5.00 67.00

I put my $$$$ where my stoma is

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OK last post for me until afte the game

I won't be able to watch the match live - not sure what i'll do

anyway - enjoy pathyia

a win would cap this campaign :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr:

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Before some of you think that we in a weak group, consider this article:

Uefa backs winners in Euro 2008 seeds

Gabriele Marcotti

With three rounds to go, qualifying for the European Championship has thrown up relatively few surprises. Of the 14 teams who qualified for the 2006 World Cup finals in Germany, 12 could reach Euro 2008. This is the maximum number, given that, thanks to the vagaries of the seeding system, groups A and B feature three sides who went to the World Cup, whereas group C does not have any and there is only one such side in group G.

When the qualifying draw was made in January last year, it looked particularly cruel for Scotland, who ended up facing Italy, France and Ukraine. As it turned out, the task appeared to get even tougher – all three sides reached the quarter-finals in the World Cup and, of course, Italy and France contested the final – which makes Scotland’s first-place status in the group even more of an achievement. Barring some kind of divine intervention, France will qualify and the other spot will be determined at Hampden Park on November 17, when Scotland host Italy. Odds are, the Azzurri will need to win, a tall order, which is why we could see the world champions fail to qualify for the next European Championship. It would not be the first time; it also happened to them in 1984. Then, however, there were only eight places in the European Championship finals; today, there are twice as many.

While it may seem unfair that three World Cup quarter-finalists should be stuck in group B while group C does not feature any, you have to bear in mind the Fifa world rankings when the draw was made: France were fifth, Italy twelfth, Ukraine 40th and Scotland 60th. Today, Italy are first, France sixth, Scotland fourteenth and Ukraine seventeenth – which only goes to show that things can and do change rather rapidly in world football.

The system works in reverse, as well. Take group C. When the draw was made, Turkey were seventh, Greece eleventh and Norway nineteenth. Having those countries as the top three seeds in their group did not seem as silly as it does today, when Greece – the highest-ranked of the three – come in at No 12.

What all this does is set up some exciting finishes. Had Serbia won away to Armenia, group A would probably have gone down to the wire. Instead, they were awful in Yerevan and lucky to avoid defeat in the 0-0 draw on Saturday. It looks as if Poland and Portugal will advance. Group C is finely poised for a three-horse race between Greece, Turkey and Norway. Turkey host Greece on Wednesday in the pick of the week’s ties and then they are away to Norway in what is likely to be another barnstormer.

In group D, Germany became the first side to qualify for the finals, with a goalless draw away to Ireland, who are now five points behind the Czech Republic in third place. In group E, Croatia and England control their own destinies. Unless England win in Moscow, however, things may go down to the wire, especially if Croatia fail to win away to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

Group F looked wide open until Northern Ireland fell apart with consecutive losses to Iceland and Latvia and Denmark were punished by Uefa with a 3-0 defeat and a four-match home ban after a supporter ran on to the pitch and attacked the referee in their game with Sweden. Spain and Sweden have now virtually sewn up their summer plans for 2008.

While some viewed Romania’s 1-0 win over Holland as an upset in group G, do not expect it to have too much of an effect. Holland and Romania are heavily favoured because Bulgaria, the third contender, has two away match-es (against Slovenia and Albania) sandwiched around a crucial home tie with Romania, while Holland host two relative cream puffs – Slovenia and Luxembourg – before travelling to Belarus for their final outing.

The bottom line? Uefa’s seeding system seemed to work. Of the 16 first or second seeds when the draw was made, 14 look almost certain to advance. The other two are Italy, whose fate will be decided when they play Scotland, and Denmark. That is not a bad strike-rate for the governing body of European football.

Edited by plato-ny

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Nikopolidis is gone after this year, he alread stated as such. Basinas will be gone too, so will Dellas (who really is still young relative to the age of most defenders). [/b]

How do you know Basinas and Dellas will be gone? I believe they still have something to give to the NT. They should at least play until the end of Euro 2008.

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Sorry, I meant "year" as in after euro 2008; I'm pretty sure Nikopolidis said he was retiring after the competition. I'm just guessing with Basinas and Dellas; they are both in their early-mid thirties, they can't play for the ethniki forever.

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NO ANTZAS!!!!! OTTO OXI!!!

THA MAS FAI O LIKOS!!!

JUST WIN BABY F$%? REVENGE!!!

WILL IT BE OTTO-MATIC MAY THE GODS BE WITH US ALL :(

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Classic line from the Simpson this morning on Foxtel. Bart and Lisa end up on a Turkish Freighter and Homer yells out

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Agapite file,

Are you being sarcastic... because if so you're hurting my feelings :( :D

What about the last gasp goal against Moldova?? 

That's different because EVERYONE was in their box. It's a completely different thing when the only players forward are Gekas and Haristeas and the midfield is 35 metres behind them offering no support. You can't build a game with a strategy like that against a decent and organised side.

Look, you may be right about Spyropoulos.  Maybe he will perform well, maybe not.  We have nothing to base it upon since he never played. As for taking chances, we can do that later, when we get the 3 points and are certain of qualification.

So let me get this straight... playing a natural left-back in his position and moving a natural midfielder into his position is a risk, but playing a centre-back in centre-mid isn't a risk?

Nevertheless, I agree that Spyropoulos on the left and Torosidis as a mid., considering our present circumstances, might be a good idea.  But, I don't think these changes will make such a HUGE difference over all.

That's where we disagree then.

And those matches you cite were -- except Turkey -- friendlies.

So do you think the result would have been different if they were official matches?

I agree, our performance was poor in all, but that is just a characteristic of Greek football unfortunately; we can be inconsistent.  Before EUro 2004 we lost 4-0 in a friendly.

That game was against Holland away. We were drawing 0-0 until the 70th min when Otto made numerous changes which practically introduced a B team and they went on to score 4. We should also mention, therefore, that in those build up friendlies, we drew 1-1 away in Portugal after having Karagouni sent off after 30 mins, we beat Sweden & Switzerland 2-1 away, etc. Ask anyone that has played football at any level and they'll tell you that unless they are pre-season friendlies, or friendlies where a B team is playing then there is no such thing! You perform as you prepare. The harder you work in the build up the more rewards you receive later.

I agree with you that we need change, the problem I have with the when and how.  Nikopolidis is gone after this year, he alread stated as such.  Basinas will be gone too, so will Dellas (who really is still young relative to the age of most defenders).  But, this change has to be gradual. 

So when exactly does gradual change begin??? If we want a changed and improved team by the Euros then isn't it time to give talented players like Spyropoulos a chance now? Besides, I'm not suggesting a mass exodus of players. Spyropoulos for Basinas & within the next few months either Goumas, Antzas or Papastathopoulos for Dellas.

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It's not so outrageous that Antzas will take his spot, because in a 4-3-3 system, the mide serves mostly to support the defence

I actually think this is a pretty good idea...plays almost like a 4-5-1

Rehhagel is VERY crafty!!

So you want us to play with 4 defenders plus 2 koftes, which in essence will lead to 6 defenders? The only way you can play this is if the midfielders are energetic and are capable of bringing the ball out and surging forward, i.e. like Chelsea when they use to play Essien and Makalele, or Olympiakos against Weder where they played Ledesma and Stoltidi. Having Basina who doesn't move and Antza who is a centre back just behind Karagouni who lacks pace is hardly the same. Where will the outlet come from when we're defending??

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you made a comment about our fullback attacking play. i will say this: if seitaridi doesn't start playing the way he should AND can play, then either drop him or consider him as a centerback for the roster.

while playing as right back, we have recently seen patsatzoglou score a stunning goal and assist on a samaras goal in bosnia and make a pin-point cross for charisteas' goal in the return match against bosnia.

i know, it's bosnia...but, a goal and 2 assists in 2 matches. seitaridi recently scored against hungary and his last assist? it may have been from an oct. 05' match against georgia, when his cross found papadopoulos' head against georgia. if patsa is involved in matches, let him play. we've all seen seitaridi disappear from many matches.

anyways, seitaridi played well against moldova and hungary. he should - seitaridi is euro-class and those 2 nations aren't the strongest. we need seitaridi for this match.

i'm starting to think that his club football is keeping him stagnant. aguirre uses a 4-3-3 and it's obvious the seitaridi doesn't have a huge attacking role.

he needs to produce, like patsatzoglou has.

I agree with everything you've said in this post 100%!!!!

The only thing I would add however is that I only think Seitaridi could play as a centre-back in a 3 man central defence & if he was employed as a man marker otherwise he should be dropped.

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this is what i've been harping about. the 3 center midfielders are the culprits here (especially basinas)...the 3 center midfielders are both the common denominator between defense & midfield and midfield & forward line.

the greek center midfield plays too close to the back 5 and too far from the front 2. end of story.

playing too close to the back 5 (in a 5-3-2) or back 4 (in a 4-3-3) makes greece VERY vulnerable to high pressing...something we saw the turks do to no end last march 24.

i remember when the italian bigon took over at olympiakos, and 8 minutes into his first match, he was off the bench screaming at poursanidis to move further up field - away from the center-backs.

remember: thv ekmetalleush kevou xwpou...very simple.

as far as antzas in katsouranis' role: madness.

i hope otto reverts back to the euro 2004 otto, where otto shocked the french and went with 2 man-marking centerbacks with dellas behind them. seitaridis passed his test...and the rest is history.

otto can do this by starting spyropoulos.

:o Can it be??? I'M LOVING AND IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH ALL YOUR POSTS!!! You should be manager and me the assistant... that we if we mess up you'll take all the flack! :P

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Classic line from the Simpson this morning on Foxtel. Bart and Lisa end up on a Turkish Freighter and Homer yells out

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