bbaw

donis/fetfa on the wings, mitro in the middle.... but the key is still the mids.....the MUST push up deep into the box or else there is nobody supoorting all the good stuff donis.fetfa can do.... the TEAM must think offensively so everybody knows what to expect when they move forward. if i beat my player on the wing, i need to know i have supoort behind me that will connect to my cross or my pass etc etc ...

2004 - 100% agreed....its funny that even those guys were criticized lol lol lol .... but compared to now they are head and shoulders above this crop of statues. santos, coaching in greece for years, had more insight into players abilities and i though he did a great job of mixing nd matching players abilities with tactics. COMMAND THE GAME ................ u must put your stamp on it - impose your will on the field....to do that, you must have an identity as a team....a few things that define you, that you execute well all the time...only then can you command the game. this team had no identity. ..it did not know what it wanted to be...you saw that alot --- indecision, hesitstion...no purpose...that is 80% coaching and defining to your players what you expect... but u cant expect a donkey to win the kentucky derby...if u pick the wrong guys, you are doomed from the start

there are four ways to move forward: 1. good, fast wingers that can go deep and make good crosses to MORE THAN ONE PLAYER (mitroglou) in the box or thereabouts ie (holeavas to samaras for ---a PENALTY) 2. smart midfielders/and backs that attack open spaces and use off the ball tactics and movement to find spaces and that can connect two good purposeful passes in a row collectively moving down the field; 3. individual players that can breakdown the other teams Defenders one on one , draw defenders and pass (to open spaces hopefully being occupied by teammates pushing forward) (Fetfa) 4. long ball precision passing midfileders (Tsiartas, etc) that can cover alot of ground by delivering long balls (to hopefully teamates that run to them) We currently have NONE of this...............NOT ONE ours is pass the ball back to the goalie and let him kick it into a crowd three quarter of the way down the field .......(when he is not kicking to a player on the other team)

j, i have seen enough as well....but we are stuck...and what concerns me even more is that the players are gonna quit on him...remember he threw them all under the bus after the first game claiming " i did nothing wrong"........ meanwhile the players are on the side YELLING at maniatis and tzavellas to get in position..... i mean seriously.

many things go into being a coach, many of which we dont see.(training, EPO, etc etc) So we judge without complete information, but.... what we DO see ---- call ups and MOST important, imho, is what he does when the game starts and he has had a chance to see how the team is performing, the matchups, the circumstances, etc. These facts are right there for ALL to see and our judgments now are made with the same information the coach has, for the most part. based on this I do not understand skibeee rationale, especially the substitutions and field tactics. After we all bitch and moan a little, we are a fair minded bunch for the most part, right? but i dont think all of us who dont approve of his in-game tactics are being unreasonable or blindly against the guy. i thnk we got as far as we did IN SPITE of him. we all know what we would like to see so i think we have to choicce but ti give him a chance to redeem himself, but i just cant imagine a shift in his thinking or approach.... we'll see....

the irony the things you say about ICELAND was US for long time...we still played negative but we managed to squeeze by just enough. but now - our midfiled is the worst I have ever seen it......its absolutely horrible. evebn against cyprus we barely squeezed by. our margin of error is practically zero...we saw that thursday. we dont have the forepower to make up 1 goal , let alone 3. remember, a desperation shot in 89 minute tied bosnia...

skibbeeeeeeeeeee is a big contributor to the problem. how can u leave three defensive mids in at 54 minutes when u take off lazaro (an offensive guy) for another offensive guy? i mean this just makes no sense....there is no hidden, cryptic football insight here that we dont see...it was just plain illogical....can anyone explain that? his in game adjustmetns are painful...

when the fish starts to smell, it starts from the head.......

box to ox midfielder....when is the last time we had anyone shoot form the top of the box ????

george dont forget vasilis karapialis, a guy who got fu**** by politics and Ieroklis Stoltidis an awesome two mid who got snubbed from the national team by otto until the end....(id ont wanna go back too far) but its no coincidence that the guys you mentioned were around at the time we won the euro, and kastourani , a very very clever high IQ mid, karagounis, basina and tsiatas were driving that team..Yes they were defensive but moved forward with some authority and purpose. so yeah we produce midfielders but last 15 years all overseas guys are defenders and an occasional stiker like machlas, gekas, mitroglou etc etc i say this again because it cannot be overemphasized enough: these guys go to the foreign leagues and LEAD THE LEAGUE IN GOALS ! service service service our mids either can't or dont b/c of coaches instructions. either way the results are clear.

right on Jason....i cant either - these guys were so beatable.

argy - agreed...very eloquently stated espcially the second paragraph...well said. but---- .of course being part of a tournament is important...my point is dont be satisfied with that....that should not be the goal (pardon the pun but its not a pun for us since we dont score lol) .....if i had a dollar for everytime i hear "we played well but lost" i blow a gasket...."U LOST !!! HOW IS THAT PLAYING WELL" evry time commentator and "general" perception speaks Greece ALWAYS gets no credit....every now and then someone may say they are tough to beat but u know what im saying look -------- i dont buy this "negative football" for a minute.....if thats what WINS then i dont care how negative it is....but u can play negative football, not out of fear for the opponent which we do --- but as part of an overall strategy that is the foundation of moving forward.... if ANYONE should move forward, its us....our D is great...right? but w ewill never be germany or france we we 1. dont think we can; and 2. the "we palyed well but lost" mentality prevails.... look at protugal and crotia ---- our size and shape yet vvery different perception in the outside soccer world

you think spain or france or germany give a sh** who and what pot they are in? this is the exact mentality that give us no shot agaisnt "bigger" clubs and as a result, we sit back, cowering hoping for a counter.... "weewewew i hope Italy or whoever are not in our pot.........." then what? u squeak in and get bounced in the first round? thats a loser's mentality..sorry. confidence boys, even borederline arrogance.....the moment u step onto the pitch you must believe you are better than you're opponent ---whether thats skill based or effort based, it does not matter...b/c if u don't you've lost before the game begins..... we neeed to develop the youth with the idea they are as good as anyone, can compete with anyone and should NEVER fear anyone....period...

J, exactly....... and further, i was wondering if u or anyone else can explain this. when i played our coaches all had different philosophies...but what they in common was allowing the mids to roam based on what the other team was showing us regarding formation, spacing etc.etc.etc. they used to tell us "good teams can win 1-0 or 5-4 depending on the situation presented" so, why dont our mids have this ability to shift the mentality and tactics? are they lazy? are they stupid? do they lack confidence ot go forward? does the cpach tell them not to play deep? is the formation limiting? im not in the locker room so i dont know, but what is it about the selections that almost always results in a bunch of non dynamic statues out there that dont much of anything in terms of SOME creativity. did u c yesterday just how many times our guys were bunched up three at a time on the wing trying to get a simple 1-2 going? can u explain why? and theories as to why our midfield is so below average? (other than they are just not that good, lol) thats to ogeneral a response --- we all know that already....

yesterdays game was worse than the first one. forget the score. game one we made three uncharacteristically bad mistakes in one game and got punished for it...even so we had BETTER (although not high quality) chances to score in that game. game two croatia parked the bus and gave us space in the middle of the field so at least play some soccer and create SOMETHING...WEC OULDNT DO NOTHING ....hOW CAN YOU GET THREE GOALS IF U DONT EVEN HAVE THREE SHOTS ON GOAL !!!!!!! please.....taxidis/smaris/fourtounis etc...they are all mediocre at best, foutournis the most puzzling and frustrating since he has some ability....NOBODY stepped up...NOBODY did ANYTHING you can point to and say "yeah thats a player" they had their chance under the best conditions to show SOMETHING...... not questionning their heart or determination ---- they just not that good, and any team going forward must be reshaped with this in mind.... giannoitis came in and made some noise....that was it...

1000000% agree.......

makry - strikers is not the problem per se... its midfield. plain and simple. anyone who does not see this clearly does not know soccer. either they are instructed not to play box to box or they can't/wont or the dont have the two way mentality that you need to be offensive when the opportunity arises. one guy cant dribble the whole other team....u need a group of like minded midfielders that know how to advance the play forward. mitroglou is a lone striker in france often, and he is tearing it up, why? service service service ...........

ITS NOT ANOTHER MITROGLOU THAT WILL SAVE US OR TURN THINGS AROUND. WHY DID MACHALAS LEAD HIS LEAGUE IN SCORING WHEN HE LEFT GREECE? GEKAS THE SAME....MITROGLOU TEARING IT UP IN FRENCH LEAGUE....WHY? SERVICE SERVICE SERVICE........ OUR MIDFIELD PLAY ABSOLUTELY STINKS...S T I N K S AND OUR MIDFIELD MENTALITY STINKS. ITS THAT SIMPLE. NO OFF THE BALL MOVEMENT, SPACING IS H O R R I B L E, NO CREATIVITY TO DETERMINE WHERE OPEN SPACE CAN BE EXPLOITED......THESE ARE NOT BRAIN SURGERY REQUIREMENTS. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU A GREEK PLAYER TAKE A SHOT FROM THE TOP OF THE BOX? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THERE IS NOBODY THERE! THE THING IS WE CAN AFFORD OFFENSIVE MIDS BECAUSE OUR D IS SO GOOD....YOU PLAY DEFENSIVE MIDS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LACK OF GOOD DEFENDERS. I DEDICATE THIS SONG TO ALL OUR MIDS FIELDERS (INCLUDING FORTOUNIS WHO PLAYS LIKE HE DOES NOT WANT TO GET HIS UNIFORM DIRTY)

I DONT GET IT............. ANYWAY, WE DID OUR BEST. WOULD HAVE NICE TO CHEER A GOAL OR TWO BUT WE JUST DONT HAVE THE FIREPOWER TO PLAY A FORWARD GAME...POOR SPACING, PASSES WITHOUT PURPOSE, LACK OF FIELD AWARENESS , ETC ETC ETC ..... CROATIA IS VERY BEATABLE. THATS THE FRUSTRATING PART. AT EVEN STRENGTH IT WAS A 50/50 PROPOSItION. WE GAVE THEM AN EARLY CHRISTMAS GIFT - BUT HEY THATS SOCCER. WELL FOLKS AS PROMISED YESTERDAY I SHUT OFF THE TV AND AM GOING TO THE GYM - CHEST/BACK YES....SUPERSETS, COMING HOME PLAYING TAVLI WITH MY SON, EATING DINNER, WATCHING A MOVIE AND CRASHING. MONDAY GOING TO WORK. WHY DO I SAY ALL THIS? BECAUSE LIFE GOES ON.... ITS BEEN REAL FOLKS. A VERY EARLY HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL OF YOU AND HAPPY HEALTHY NEW YEAR.... ALL THE BEST !!!!!!

RETSOS LOOKS VERY SHAKY....VERY NERVOUS ON THE BALL

YEAH, WITH A GUY WE CAN USE TODAY ------- THE CROSS CAME FROM HOLEVAS.....

ANNOUNCERS SAY IT BEST..... YOU ARE ASKING A TEAM BUILT ONE WAY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS, TO PLAY A DIFFERENT WAY..."CHANGE THEIR DNA" IS THE WAY THEY PUT IT. VERY VERY TRUE...THATS WHY WE HAVE VERY LITTLE GOING FORWARD...WE DONT TRAIN FOR THAT, COACH DOESN'T LOOK FOR THAT AND CONSEQUENTLY, WE DONT PLAY THE WAY WE NEED TO TODAY...SO FAR. SO FAR.......LET SEE...45 MINUTES TO GO. TSIOLIS OUT...FORTUNIS IN. IMMEDIATELY...

time to put up or shut up.....words are cheap.....u dug yourselves into a hole... regroup play for the flag, and walk onto the pitch with the resolve, determination, spirit and pride that Sir Winston Churchill used as the basis for his famous quote: "Greeks don't fight like heroes, heroes fight like Greeks" you want it? go get it. its there for the taking.....your best game will be good enough to go through... enjoy the match folks........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the unknown of tomorrow is really exciting and fascinating....whatever the outcome. who will step up.....who will shrink....what will croatia do, how will they handle the aggregate lead, will they attack or sit back...will greece become a different team and go all out on attack? this is one of those defining moment games...peoples legacy can be made or broken with this game....the beauty of sport - real, unscripted, in the moment drama....its awesome chest/back traditional push/pull routine. very old school...basketball shrink wraps everything...beats the treadmill/eliptical etc/ etc. lol we will put up a good fight. i would be shocked if we didn't....will it be enough to go through, i dont know...anything is possible...but as we all have alluded to, its shame we are in this mess for three mistakes that we dont normally make. for what its worth, if donis/mantalos/manolas/toro we in there is NO WAY we dont go through...no efen way..but we goota run with the horses we have ... if we WANT IT bad enough we can go through...dont be surprised...however unlikely it may seem, dont be surprised...im not optimistic but it does not mean i am not excited about the opportunity (i sound like im playing tomorrow, lol) or excited about watching an amazing game with all the different elements and storylines it will produce...

lol.....chest/back and basketball thereafter......appreciate your interest....lol lol