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Bananas

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Posts posted by Bananas

  1. Is he going to be the starting keeper or is it Glykos' to lose? I assume Olsen will be the number one.

    Glykos is frustrating. Some times he looks decent other times he looks like an amateur.

     

    Glykos is fine if you're content with getting 3rd or 4th place in the league.  If we want better (and apparently we do), I agree he's not quite there.  Good as a backup though, if he's content to play that role.

  2. Actually there isn't. Again, if you actually visited Greece - which clearly and painfully obviously you don't, you wouldn't keep falling down and scraping your face each time you post. Very few Greeks blame the left for the current and past economic problems in Greece. Greeks who tend to blame the left have been educated outside Greece - in more centrist countries. Most Greeks are still trying to understand how over-unionisation destroyed the Piraeus dockyards. 

     

    You're flailing about all over the place.  I have been to Greece but that is besides the point.  I do live in a "centrist" country, and again, that is besides the point, but if I don't answer your points, other posters might think you know what you're talking about.

     

    As athinaios said in post #413, there is very little difference between the main stream parties in Greece.  To me they are the same and had essentially the same policies whether it was PASOK or ND in charge.  But when you talk about what is wrong with Greece and how it got that way, you always blame "the left".  Always.  At least that's the way I perceive your posts.  Maybe if you tried being a bit more neutral ...

  3. The Greek civil war was indeed about the direction of the country. But, let me tell you, since then there's no left and right in Greece, excluding the fringe parties of the KKE and the fascists, which are marginal and won't govern. All the other parties behave the same way with small variations. All use the state mechanism for patronizing. Their policies are in essence the same.  Now, the interesting question is why....

     

    I agree, I think it's probably 5% on either side that are "hard" core.

  4. Untrue, there were at least 2 right wing parties completely opposing austerity and they still are, such as ANEL. Also you said opposing the EU? I think what you meant to say is opposing austerity. Syriza is pro EU like most leftist parties. It is their child. This is a leftist flip however, even by leftist standards, the flip is so soon after the stereotypical bluff.. it is impressive.  It reminds me of Alafouzos' bluff that he would pull PAO out of the Greek SL if Olympiacos are not punished.

     

    On another note, there is something very very Greek about this disastrous move by Tsipras. It is the politics of a boy who would still be breastfeeding from his mother if it was socially acceptable.  It is weak, naive and shows a complete lack of understanding of realpolitik.  It is this type of individual that guaranteed Cyprus was invaded and sliced like a cheap cake. It is this type of Greek that allows Turkey to violate Greek airspace and sea borders daily. It is this type of Greek that means that a country with the potential to be like Switzerland - has a reality where we seem to resemble a pseudo Albanian country - broken, divided and with no intelligence at any level. 

     

    Bizarre.  There is something very very Greek about blaming all the ills of the nation on "the left".  Has "the right" never done anything wrong ?

     

    Greece was never an advanced first world economy, but it was never a third world economy either.  It was always somewhere in between, and this was reflected in its GDP and general standard of living.  Not as good as say the US, UK or Germany but not like an Albania, Bulgaira or Yugoslavia either.  And it would probably stay that way for the foreseeable future.  It takes decades to really lift living standards in any nation.

     

    But, the EU has managed to slash Greece's GDP by 25% in less than 7 years.  Quite an achievement.  Vote yes for more!  Don't even get me started on how they've belittled us (of no real relevance in realpolitik) and their stupid immigration rules (highly relevant).

    • Like it 3
  5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was the back flip a back flip ?  Didn't Tsipras just present the same terms as before ?  The sticking point last week was that the EU wanted to increase the VAT and have a decrease on pensions.  

     

    Just a second ... *boom* ... there was a commie bastard scum at the door.  One less now.

  6. Don't believe whatever comes from that commie scum.  The EU is tired of dealing with this filth.  First it was throwing out nazi reparations and now flipping back and forth on deals and then calling a referendum.  Nope, the EU should just choke out Greece.  Let the referendum do the talking.  Go on with it.  This Syriza idiot thought he would sink the world's financial markets with the "default" but nobody really cares anymore unless you own stock in Gyros meat or Feta Cheese.

     

    Scum, commie, choke.  Great to see you get such a kick out of the suffering.  And this isn't the first time you've used colorful language like this.  You are special.  You should ask your therapist for a refund.  You remind me of Nurse Ratched, especially since you used the "choke" description.  Great scene.

     

    Are you even Greek ?  I'm beginning to think you're a Skopian or Turk that just comes onto these forums to troll.

    • Like it 1
  7. Excellent post Bananas....Greece must vote no, by voting yes what are they voting for? Higher unemployment, no jobs, and continued shrinkage in the economy.

     

    To me, a yes vote is a vote for fear of the unknown ... which is fair enough.  It is scary.  It is also a vote for the preservation of existing asset values and debt values.  If Greece introduces a new currency, effectively anyone that has assets in Greece will see their value probably halved, so this is definitely a big hit.  But the biggest thing about a yes vote, is that it's effectively a vote to condemn the youth of Greece to high unemployment indefinitely.  This is the worst aspect of the austerity, and one the EU has shown they are not too bothered about.  The vote from my perspective is, do I worry about my pocket now, or worry about what sort of a country my children will inherit.

     

    A bit melodramatic I know, but that's what this is about.  What will give Greece the better outcome in the long run.

  8. And another http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html?_r=0 from Paul Krugman.

     

    Some snippets.

     

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    It has been obvious for some time that the creation of the euro was a terrible mistake. Europe never had the preconditions for a successful single currency ? above all, the kind of fiscal and banking union that, for example, ensures that when a housing bubble in Florida bursts, Washington automatically protects seniors against any threat to their medical care or their bank deposits.

     

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    Greece should vote ?no,? and the Greek government should be ready, if necessary, to leave the euro.

     

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    And this collapse, in turn, had a lot to do with the euro, which trapped Greece in an economic straitjacket. Cases of successful austerity, in which countries rein in deficits without bringing on a depression, typically involve large currency devaluations that make their exports more competitive. This is what happened, for example, in Canada in the 1990s, and to an important extent it?s what happened in Iceland more recently. But Greece, without its own currency, didn?t have that option.

     

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    This is, and presumably was intended to be, an offer Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, can?t accept, because it would destroy his political reason for being. The purpose must therefore be to drive him from office, which will probably happen if Greek voters fear confrontation with the troika enough to vote yes next week.

     

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    So it?s time to put an end to this unthinkability. Otherwise Greece will face endless austerity, and a depression with no hint of an end.

    • Like it 2
  9. Good article http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/29/joseph-stiglitz-how-i-would-vote-in-the-greek-referendum from Joseph Stiglitz.

     

    Some snippets.

     

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    Of course, the economics behind the programme that the ?troika? (the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund) foisted on Greece five years ago has been abysmal, resulting in a 25% decline in the country?s GDP. I can think of no depression, ever, that has been so deliberate and had such catastrophic consequences: Greece?s rate of youth unemployment, for example, now exceeds 60%.
     
    It is startling that the troika has refused to accept responsibility for any of this or admit how bad its forecasts and models have been. But what is even more surprising is that Europe?s leaders have not even learned. The troika is still demanding that Greece achieve a primary budget surplus (excluding interest payments) of 3.5% of GDP by 2018.
     
    Economists around the world have condemned that target as punitive, because aiming for it will inevitably result in a deeper downturn. Indeed, even if Greece?s debt is restructured beyond anything imaginable, the country will remain in depression if voters there commit to the troika?s target in the snap referendum to be held this weekend.

     

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    We should be clear: almost none of the huge amount of money loaned to Greece has actually gone there. It has gone to pay out private-sector creditors ? including German and French banks. Greece has gotten but a pittance, but it has paid a high price to preserve these countries? banking systems. The IMF and the other ?official? creditors do not need the money that is being demanded. Under a business-as-usual scenario, the money received would most likely just be lent out again to Greece.
     
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    That concern for popular legitimacy is incompatible with the politics of the eurozone, which was never a very democratic project. Most of its members? governments did not seek their people?s approval to turn over their monetary sovereignty to the ECB. When Sweden?s did, Swedes said no. They understood that unemployment would rise if the country?s monetary policy were set by a central bank that focused single-mindedly on inflation (and also that there would be insufficient attention to financial stability). The economy would suffer, because the economic model underlying the eurozone was predicated on power relationships that disadvantaged workers.
     
    It is hard to advise Greeks how to vote on 5 July. Neither alternative ? approval or rejection of the troika?s terms ? will be easy, and both carry huge risks. A yes vote would mean depression almost without end. Perhaps a depleted country ? one that has sold off all of its assets, and whose bright young people have emigrated ? might finally get debt forgiveness; perhaps, having shrivelled into a middle-income economy, Greece might finally be able to get assistance from the World Bank. All of this might happen in the next decade, or perhaps in the decade after that.
     
    By contrast, a no vote would at least open the possibility that Greece, with its strong democratic tradition, might grasp its destiny in its own hands. Greeks might gain the opportunity to shape a future that, though perhaps not as prosperous as the past, is far more hopeful than the unconscionable torture of the present.
    • Like it 2
  10. @Bananas

    Like in every country there are morrons and rocket scientists and the rest is in between. Greece is no exception. Greeks in the diaspora are no exception. But this referendum is way out of the league of the majority. Mine too. I can not figure out what the complications are of you say A or B. What are the effects in about 10 or 20 years? Audit offices of countries can. Plain civilians can not. Therefore the government has to decide this specific item.

    @js1000

    Lower taxes and EU would be nice. But (as RS stated so well) we have to move forward. For our kids and future generations.

    No one knows for certain what the ramifications will be of choosing option A over option B. Economists can't predict more than 12 months ahead, if that, and if you get 10 economists in a room, you'll probably get 11 opinions.

    However, what I do know for certain is the following :-

    - having control of your own currency and having the ability to set your own interest rates can only be a good thing.

    - most economists outside the EU think Greece is better off in the long run because of this.

    - most economists outside the EU think the EU is terribly inflexible, bordering on incompetent.

    - most economists outside the EU find the idea of Greece paying the debts farcicle.

    - if Greece stops using the Euro the next 5 years will be very bad.

    - if Greece has a a devalued currency, our exports will grow and imports decrease.

    - if Greece stops using the Euro the EU is s%$#! scared (and I mean terrified) that if they manage to stabilise their economy, others could follow one day. This is key and is why Germany doesn't want a Grexit.

    - I hate trying to type on an ipad mini with its brain dead auto correction.

    The key is having control of your currency. Without that, you have nothing.

    • Like it 1
  11. Dutch Eagle, I just don't agree that the people are not capable of deciding.  We're not all that stupid are we ?  Or only the Greeks in the diaspora are capable ?  Or not even them ?  The people deserve to have a say.  This isn't a normal or typical situation they are in.  If the people are not fit to have a say in a referendum, then why bother even having normal elections ?  Just hand over all decision making to an bureaucracy that's never elected.

     

    Red Sheriff, KKE only gets around 5% of the vote, give or take, so even though there are a lot of left leaning voters in Greece, it's a minority that still have hard communist beliefs.

     

    Having said that I don't think there is a single poster in this forum that doesn't agree that Greece is in a mess.  None of us agree with 10 year degrees, or the crazy unions, or the retirements at 47 and all the other guff that has collectively ruined Greece.  What everyone disagrees on is the best way forward.  Basically, with the Euro or with a new currency.  That is the real question.  And, I don't think sticking with the Euro is the best way forward in the long run.  The EU is just too inflexible and was never designed with any mechanisms to help in a situation such as this.  Right now, they EU is quite content with austerity and 25% unemployment for the next 20+ years, whereas the Greek people are not.

    • Like it 1
  12. Agree, 1 million is a lot of money, at least for a loan player.  According to sport24.gr, PAOK wants to split the payment up depending on games played.  $200K per 7 games played which isn't too bad.  End of the day, the season before last (2013-2014) he was the top goal scorer in the Eredivisie with 29 goals, so if he could even recapture half of that form, I'd be happy.

     

    As to signing him permanently, that's a long way down the road and I'm sure Real Sociedad would want to regain a good portion of the $7.5M they paid.

  13. Blackmail???? Have you read what was proposed.

    it is hardly unreasonable 

     

    The EU's position is unreasonable.  They were already very close, with the difference being only 0.5% of GDP.  In the end, the EU was insisting on a small increase to the VAT and another small cut to pensions.  Tsipras refused and they wouldn't budge.  The EU obviously knew that politically Tsipras couldn't agree to these terms but they still insisted on them anyway.

     

    I don't even know why them call them negotiations.  Nothing is negotiated.  It's basically the EU specifying what they want, and if Greece doesn't agree the EU gets upset and the media spin begins.

     

    EU:  Greece, bend over.

    Greece: No.

    EU:  I said, bend over.

    Greece: No.

    EU:  These damn Greeks never listen!

     

    Where as before Tsipras it was

     

    EU:  Greece, bend over.

    Greece: Is that far enough ?

    EU:  A little more.

    Greece:  Far enough ?

    EU:  That'll do.  These Greeks are so nice!

  14. As stated by a more perceptive member, the Greek civil war is still being played out. If someone has come to their anti-capitalist, corrupt bank/politicians beliefs naturally, there is at least a chance for debate. In my experience, when you are dealing with a 3rd generation Greek communist.. all you get are strawmen and insults. We saw that already on this thread when leftist members were questioning the basic humanity of other members concerning Greek hospitals and the lack of medicines - while  ignoring the fact the Syriza government just spent a fortune rehiring a corrupt and inefficient ERT :unsure:. It is this kind of political schizophrenia that is not learnt, it is bred. 

     

    We have heard of the difficulties for a human to invest a penny of his money in Greece, yet we have one member believing corrupt politicians are the problem. Whether Greece has 1000 corrupt politicians, or 0. In fact every country I have ever lived in has deeply corrupt politicians. Greece can't function on an anti-capitalist ticket in 2015 in the EU. The only way out is job creation, industry and foreign investment. 

     

    Now as we can see from this debate, the majority agree with this, however the 1 or 2 who don't, shout loudest and most aggressively to other members. 

     

    Reaper, Reaper, oh man.  The civil war did end quite a while ago.  Yes, there are lots of people within Greece that still have (I believe unrealistic) views of how Greece should be this leftist utopia, but just because that is the case, it doesn't mean there is still a war going on.  It's just a clash of ideologies, just like you can get in any nation.  You seem to have a real problem with anyone not agreeing with you and resort to hyperbole and insults.  So, anyone that doesn't agree with you is a schizophrenic with one or more communist grandparents and was bred that way ?  :lol:

     

    You then say that the majority agree with you.  I don't think so.  There's probably 4 or 5 that fully agree with you.  I think it's more like 50/50 based on the posts on this thread.  You then say there's 1 or 2 who don't, who shout aggressively to other members.  There's definitely more than that, that disagree with you (and that's ok) and they are not the one's getting personal and asking if they have communist grandparents.  You started that crap.

     

    Back on topic.

     

    I think the referendum is a good idea.  It's time for the Greek people to decide what they want.  They can't have it both ways.  It's either reject the austerity plan or don't.

     

    If they reject it, they need to understand that this gives extra moral authority to Tsipras to go to the edge of the cliff in his negotiations with the EU.  They also need to understand that there is a risk the EU has had enough, and could force a Grexit by just not funding Greece.

     

    If they decide to stick with the austerity, then Tsipras and his government are in trouble and have lost moral authority to negotiate on behalf of Greece.

     

    Either way, it's time for the people to decide.  Interesting times ....

  15. How can he bargain harder?  Isn't obvious that the Europeans are sick of the Greeks lying and stalling? The other thing is why all the lying to everyone in Greece.  He kept telling the people that a deal is close on a daily basis for the last 3-4 months.  Why not have the referendum a month ago when they told him too?  A head of state or even a head of a newspaper stand should be honest and up front.  They should not play games with everyone.  Greece has taken 1000 steps backwards in regards to a lot of things and there is no country in the world that will trust us.  We are liars and crooks.  We play games and walk out on meetings after 45 minutes.  We waste everyone's time.  We aren't trustworthy.  This is not how civilized people do business.  But we aren't civilized.  Shame on the banks for lending us money.  They should have sunk us back then to teach us a lesson. 

    I don't know man. I think you need therapy.

  16. Gas stations are getting cleaned out, ATM's are getting emptied, grocery stores are getting ravaged.  It shows you how much confidence the people have in this 1974 Moscow student government they have.  The spineless Tsipras doesn't even have the balls to make a decision.  Hey, you got elected with your mandate by the people so step up and say "no" and move the country to the Drachma instead he's a typical communist coward hiding behind a "referendum".  

     

    I can't believe how stupid the Greek population is.  We all called this months ago and we don't live there.  What a shameful country.  The only thing they have going for them is the nice weather at this point.  Other than that, they are F***ed for years and years.

     

    In one alternate universe, Kostas, won the lotto.  Everyone at the local greek community also learned about it.  He wasn't sure what to do, so decided to not attend the community function, like he has been for the last 30 years.  Everyone said, look at Kosta the manga.  He's too good for us now!

     

    In a second alternate universe, Kostas, won the lotto.  Everyone at the local greek community also learned about it.  He wasn't sure what to do, so decided to attend the community function, like he has been for the last 30 years, but not to make a show of winning big.  Instead, he would behave the way he has for the last 30 years.  Everyone said, look at Kosta the tight arse.  What a tsigouni!

     

    In a third alternate universe, Kostas, won the lotto.  Everyone at the local greek community also learned about it.  He wasn't sure what to do, so decided to attend the community function, like he has been for the last 30 years, and to pay the bill for everyone attending.  After all, he's won big and wanted to share.  Everyone said, look at Kosta the big man.  Thinks he's a big shot now!

     

    You call Tsipras spineless, and yet his actions are the opposite.  What he's done, even if you don't agree with it, are not the actions of a spineless man.  And, if he'd caved in at the last to the EU, you'd still call him spineless, and worse.  You probably would have mocked him and made jokes about how Merkel put him in his place.

     

    I don't necessarily agree with Tsipras's idea of a referendum, and it could backfire on him big time.  If the EU don't supply additional funding this week (and it would be a miracle if they did) and he can't get the referendum to go ahead, he will look just as foolish as Papandreou did not so long ago.

     

    I don't believe Tsipras is an idiot and he's taking the gamble with the hope it goes ahead.  A calculated gamble which may work.  This is where legalities of the constitution etc. come into play and we'll have to see how it plays out this week.  If he gets the result he wants, he can either bargain harder with the EU, who probably at this stage wouldn't even want to be in the same room as him, or he can begin preparing for Greece to start using a new currency.  This I believe is his intention, but it's just my opinion.  I suspect for that to happen he would need at minimum a second referendum.

     

    But you know what, it doesn't matter, because as you said "I can't believe how stupid the Greek population is".  I don't think it would matter to you how they vote.  In your mind, they are all F***ed anyway.  In an alternate universe ...

  17. The fact that Kace is on around 5x less money than Maduro is a bit of a joke.  The kid was voted our MVP for the season and is on the lowest wage of all the main players in the squad.  There are youth players on less, but pretty much all the main squad, except Tzandaris earns/earned a much better wage than him.  It's crap like this that doesn't help.  Spyropoulos has been getting paid 2.5x what Kace has been paid.  Crazy.

    • Like it 1
  18. Js1000 - were your grandparents/ great grandparents communists?

     

    *shakes head* terrible ... just terrible.  This is meant to be an economic thread where we can discuss the status of the Greek economy and discuss ideas on how things could improve, regardless of how pie in the sky that is.

     

    Boy, fetch me a burning cross, and some kool-aid!

  19. Off the topic on the Greek economy but I have to say this: protesting against the G8 in Genoa is to Tsipras' CREDIT in my books.

    Life has gotten far more miserable, for far too many of us, since these collusionist, by-invitation-only, no-dissent-allowed meetings have begun.

     

    Have to agree with you.  Most of the people in power in the EU are not even elected officials and their is nothing citizens can currently do about it.  But, apparently having such a view means you have no grip on reality.

    • Like it 1
  20. Great interview.  Very heartening!  Not used to the idea of our club being run professionally.  I especially liked the way Arnesen deflected the usual silly talk about "metagrafes" and "do you think you can win the title".  The media wants what the media wants.

     

    Arnesen brought up some points which are critical to PAOK ever becoming a successful team.  Most importantly, developing a winning mentality.  Also, not thinking too far ahead and the priority being to be concerned with the next game (or two).  Our goal should simply be to play better and better each week.  Well, for now our goal should be to be able to string 5 passes together whereas now it seems like at any moment we will lose the ball and a counter attack will be on ;)

  21. Reforms are meaningless when you can't issue your own currency and have it float at a value that reflects the strength of your economy.  Likewise with the setting of interest rates.  The basic structure of the EU is a straight jacket.

     

    Spain, Ireland and to a lesser extent Italy are "reforming" and have been for several years.  How long before their economies are "fixed" ?  Start counting because it's going to take a long time.  The EU is not concerned that Spain has 20+% unemployment.  They are more than happy with the "growth" of this "tiger" in the last 12 months.

    • Like it 1
  22. Hope we keep Kace. What are the odds that Veria will actually be booted?

     

    I'd be happy to sell him, but only for a decent amount, and with a buy-back clause in case things didn't work out.  Considering some of the players out there will ridiculous fees on their heads, Kace would have to be worth at least a few million.  The kid is only 21 and has made serious improvements in the last 2 years.

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